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2.5 liter, T18 and D300 a do-able option??

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mikec4193 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Oct. 2014 at 6:49pm
Hi everybody
 
Been away for a while....had to clear my head and my yard out too....starting from scratch again....I went out and purchased a pile of 1985 CJ7 parts...or so I was told they were..
 
Looks like I have a 1985 2.5 liter motor with hydraulic clutch and bell housing, a Ford T18 4 speed truck transmission and the transfer case that came out of the Jeep also....supposedly a "D300", he threw in both driveshafts, hanging pedals, radiator, and finally both front and rear axles too from the 1985 CJ7 (disc brakes on the front axle too)...
 
I am planning on mounting all this stuff under a 1948 Willys Jeep body/tub.
 
Has anybody done this swap and if so what do I need to make all these 3 items work together???
 
Any insight would be muchly appreciated.
 
MikeC


Edited by mikec4193 - 27 Oct. 2014 at 11:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2014 at 12:09pm
I was told to get in touch with Advance Adapters to make all 3 of these peices work together and they told me they could not make anything work for me unless I switched to an AX15 transmission....not even sure what that is...there total kit price was $3000.00 to $3500.00 to make work with the 2.5 liter engine and the D300 transfer case...
 
This project might be up for sale in the near future...there is not that kind of money in my budget to allow for that...
 
If anybody has any insight as to what to do now....please please let me know...I am at my wits end again...I have some 2x4 steel coming this morning and I was gonna fabricate up a frame for it...but with those kind of numbers...I dont think I will go ahead as I had planned...
 
Comments and insight is welcome here..
 
MikeC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2014 at 12:59pm
Mike,

If you buy all the individual pieces to build a mod, it will cost you a fortune and take forever.  My recommendation would be to start with a working, or close to working, CJ5 that the body is shot on.  Less expensive and less time consuming.  JM2C
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2014 at 3:57pm
Jeff's advice is good. But the best advice for those planning future builds is...do your homework FIRST, not AFTER you clean out somebody else's garage of stuff he wants to get rid of.

Oh sure,  they are gonna tell you it all fits together but they are the seller right?

Especially when dealing with adapters, have it ALL there and bolted together BEFORE you start trying to fit it all into a frame. That way, you can jockey it all around for the best positions.

One of the more depressing parts of building 'Frankie' was the purchase of my adapters....one for the engine to transmission and one for the tranny to transfer case.....that's right at $1,000 worth of adapters that don't do anything other than bolt all the components together on the garage floor!

BUT, this is what I had PLANNED  on and had planned FOR.....do your homework first, there will be more than enough surprises along the way even with proper planning.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2014 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Mike,

If you buy all the individual pieces to build a mod, it will cost you a fortune and take forever.  My recommendation would be to start with a working, or close to working, CJ5 that the body is shot on.  Less expensive and less time consuming.  JM2C
Hi Jpet
 
I work with a fellow that has all stock 1959 CJ5 and he says it only runs top end at maybe 45 to 50 mph...again nothing even close to where I need to be...
 
Or is this guy just telling me stories maybe???
 
That was why I jumped on this one with the 2.5 liter (1985 vintage at that...)...I had gone on the advance adpater website (before my purchase) and I thought I saw the plate I needed was like $500.00 but I wrote to them to get the full scoop....man o man was I every surprised when I got that quote back this morning.....maybe I need to get a different 4 speed maybe??...what do they call them...SM 460 or SM 465???...I think they came in heavy duty trucks back in the day???...or should I try and find another 5 speed like what the Jeep had in when it was stock???
Has anybody on here done a 5 speed transmission into one of these flat fenders??
 
What are running in your V6 "BAM-BAM" vehicle as far as tranny goes???
 
Any more insight on this subject would be great....
 
MikeC
 
P.S. and I thought I knew what I was doing...the older I get the dumber I get...
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2014 at 6:51pm
Mine has an SM465 but I bought all this as a project.  Motor, trans and adapter were already together and functioning.

Most of the trannys have a 1:1 high ratio so the economic trick to high speed is not in the tranny but in your differentials.  Mine are 3.73:1  The down side to higher differentials is you loose your low crawl on the trail.  That is why I have the 465, so I can use 3:73:1 differentials but with a 6.55:1 first gear, I have more than enough basement to run with the 2As off-road.

Since you have made it known in other threads that you are not interested in off-road capability, you have no need for granny low.  Any synchronized 3 speed will work in your application.  You just need 3.73 diff gears and a motor with the horsepower to pull them.

Overdrive transmissions are usually expensive unless you know a guy who knows a guy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2014 at 7:04pm
... If I'm correct and you are more interested in making a streetable flat fender than an off-road vehicle, the most economical thing for you to do would be to get a SBC or V6 already coupled to a GM 3 speed, or automatic with no transfer case at all. Then you would not need any adapters and you would have more driveshaft room.  If you are a Ford man, then use ford stuff but you should not have any problems finding either with a stock 3 speed.  I'd look for something already together and working though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luke_S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2014 at 11:40pm
Try Novak's knowledge pages on transmissions and transfer cases. If I had studied and planned by it and followed what can be junkyard adapted maybe I'd be furthe along with mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct. 2014 at 12:14am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

... If I'm correct and you are more interested in making a streetable flat fender than an off-road vehicle, the most economical thing for you to do would be to get a SBC or V6 already coupled to a GM 3 speed, or automatic with no transfer case at all. Then you would not need any adapters and you would have more driveshaft room.  If you are a Ford man, then use ford stuff but you should not have any problems finding either with a stock 3 speed.  I'd look for something already together and working though.

Yes street driven only....well except my 250' long dirt driveway...to and from my jobs...on the interstate doing 55 mph is the goal too...

I bought with my pile of parts a 1985 CJ7 front axle (disc brakes) and a the rear end to match...not sure where to go now....I would think those parts might allow me to do the speed limit though...I was hoping to keep it as much Jeep as I could for the future resale value too...keeping it all the same make and model and year makes trips to the local NAPA a lot simpler as all those guys look stuff up with is make model and year..

One good thing is I have the most all the body parts stored in my lean too out of the weather...

I was hoping to build the frame like Mieser did and start mounting all the stuff I need to it until I had something I could throw a body onto...I did get all my 2x4 steel tube sitting here in the same lean too as the body...not sure what I wanna grind on really this winter...those adapter prices sorta set me back in my seat a little....I almost forgot how much Willys Jeep Parts cost....

What if I mounted the 5 speed Jeep tranny back in it (when I find one) and lose the transfer case totally??? Would b a do-able choice???

I guess I will start watching the local Craigslist maybe for something....as far as Chevy or Ford...no real preference  really either...as long as it isn't a Toyota or a Nissan I will drive it...I would even run a little Dodge Dakota (4 cylinder) with a 5 speed behind it if it would fit under the CJ2A body...

Thanks Jpet...you are the man for sure....I wish I had a 1/4 of your knowledge data-base...I would be able build this thing and not have to ask any questions...you are an inspiration to all of us on here...(especially me)

MikeC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct. 2014 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by mikec4193 mikec4193 wrote:

 . . .  or should I try and find another 5 speed like what the Jeep had in when it was stock???
Has anybody on here done a 5 speed transmission into one of these flat fenders??
 
Any more insight on this subject would be great....
 
This will probably not help in decision . . but can share my experience. 
 
In building my son's '84 CJ-7 many years ago,  we started with Jeep that had stock 2.5 4-cyl, T-5 tranny, D300 xfer.  The stock axles with that combo were 4.10  . .  that combination was actually very good in my opinion:
 - on trails   (4.0 1st, 2.62 xfer, 4.10) = 42.9 crawl ratio  (better than stock CJ2A) 36.9
 - on street with OD = .75 x 4.10 = 3.07  (much better than 5.38)
 
The issues with that combo under a '2A are:  
  - that tranny is long . . might be tough to stuff inside a 80" wheelbase.  . might help to lose xfer though
  - axles are wider . .  if you like tires sticking out past fenders,  then you are ok.
 
Note: my son's Jeep morphed quited a bit from that starting point.   a AMC 360 replaced the 4-cyl  (almost a direct bolt-in Shocked ) ,  definately had to drive carefully though LOL,  the T-5 was not designed for that torque.) . .  drove it for 2-years without incident though  . . eventually went NP435, with the necessary adapter. (nice for trails,  but not as good on road)


Edited by JeepFever - 23 Oct. 2014 at 6:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GARGOYLEJEEPER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct. 2014 at 4:44am
Ford T-18 input stick out length = 6.25"
Jeep T-5 Input stick out length = 7.19"
Use 2.5 bell housing drilled for T-18
Need adapter pilot bushing @$60.
2A Trans mount lowered @4+" .
Cut hole for TC shifter.
 
If trans/transfer case not mated will have to mate by getting shaft & adapter, if already mated install.
 
Do not use wide tracks unless, you like that kind of thing, would not want a AMC20 under a Willy`s any way.
Shorten a Scout II D44 front and use a Centered D44 rear out of a mid CJ-5 `72-`74 for a D300 TC.
 
This picture is with Ford SB, T-18, D18 (w/modified T-18 to D20 rear bearing plate) & original cross member in stock location lowered 4", still had to use a piece of rubber to keep back-up lights from hitting and grounding. Rear DL was short, about 6" tube.


Edited by GARGOYLEJEEPER - 24 Oct. 2014 at 4:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct. 2014 at 1:20pm

This photo is the rear view of the 1985 Jeep 2.5 liter bell housing

 

 
This is the input shaft side of the T18
 
 
This is the stick out of the T18 input shaft (input is the engine side right??)
 
 
this is bolting surface of the 1985 CJ7 transfer case....
 
 
I dont own a machine shop...not sure what kind of plate will work....but would I be better off just getting a SM465 or a SM420? and get the adapter plate from NOVAK? They wrote me back and said I would need an S10 Blazer type bell housing and than there was a bunch of other stuff I was gonna need but they had given me a list in the email I got from them...
 
I am shooting for a road type driver...I dont off road....I want on road driveablity with reliablity also....easy on my gas budget too would be great too...
 
MikeC


Edited by mikec4193 - 24 Oct. 2014 at 1:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct. 2014 at 10:16pm
Hi Everybody

I think I wanna find a 1985 ish era CJ7 T4 transmission. This will eliminate all the plates and adapters from the Novak folks. 

I think the AMC guys from that era knew what they were doing as far as gearing all that stuff so....

I may have to stretch the tub to make it all fit right but I think if I keep it as much 1985 CJ7 as I can....I will be able to keep the 2.5 liter and the stock 1985 transfer case too....so basically in the end I will have 1985 Jeep with a smelly old CJ2A body on top of it...disc brakes...hanging clutch and brake pedals....regular mid 1980's Jeep stuff....

So if anybody has a T4 CJ7 tranny they wanna sell me let me know.

MikeC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GARGOYLEJEEPER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct. 2014 at 11:49pm
No stretching. Here is some info.
Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct. 2014 at 12:40am
  Mike, PM Tiny, he's pulling a 258/T4 out of a CJ7 to install a 4.3/4L60. I'm sure he'll work a deal with you for the T4, if shipping isn't a killer.   BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct. 2014 at 1:24am
Mike,   I have a t4 I don't need I will take 75.00 for it and you cover the freight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct. 2014 at 10:59am
PM sent to Tiny...

Hey Gargoyle...where did you get that spec sheet on all those Jeep parts??...almost makes it seem like this thing might actually fit under a 80" wheel base...I would not mind stretching this thing out a little bit...I drove a 80" (wheelbase) stock one and I felt like a drunken sailor getting from point A to point B on the roadways....a little wider track and a little longer wheelbase wont hurt the drive-ability at all...in my little head at least it wont...

thanks guys for all the insight...

Next up is finding a CJ7 steering box and steering column too...

MikeC



Edited by mikec4193 - 27 Oct. 2014 at 8:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct. 2014 at 1:46pm
The steering box is common to GM cars too.



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