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Crankshaft endfloat |
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Old Boy 
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 Topic: Crankshaft endfloatPosted: 20 Sep. 2009 at 9:02pm |
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Hi Everyone, I am in the process of inspecting my engine, 4LR110818. The engine has been rebuilt at some point as it is in good shape with +0.030" pistons. However the crankshaft has 0.073" of endfloat. Could this be due to crankgrinding? Is it acceptable to fit nearly 0.070" of shims to correct the endfloat or should I look for a wider rear main bearing? I look forward to your thoughts. Thank you.
Edited by Old Boy - 21 Sep. 2009 at 1:23pm |
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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Howard
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 2:04pm |
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Hmmm...That seems odd. I assume that your engine has the gear driven shafts. Crank grinding does not usually include frinding the face of the front bearing journal shoulder. Not unless there was some problem there in the past. I do know of some that have had that surface ground to achieve more clearance so they could shim the crank, but .073??? Are all the parts there? The thrust washer, 634796? Is it OK?
Wider rear main bearing? Is there such a thing to 'fix' this problem? It would have to be the front. That does not make sense to me. The shims ,630262, are .002 each as I recall...your solution lies elsewhere it seems to me...hopefully someone else here?
Good Luck. Sorry I am no more help.
Edit...been thinking about your findings. Almost does not seem possible to have .073 end play without serious effect on other parts...
The front crank bearing shell has the flanges on them to 'wrap' the bearing journals. This is where the end play is set. All the other bearing shells are 'open ' ended and the crank floats...so in order to change that clearance there would have to be a difference in the front bearing shell dimensions...as far as the flange thickness is concerned...not the bearing diameter...I still do not know but it is interesting to here from you... Edited by Howard - 21 Sep. 2009 at 3:41pm |
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Howard F Jewett
1946 CJ2A #23353 43 GPW 106505 USA #20366014 43 Bantam Trailer T3 #14844 52 M100 K1119 |
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sean
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 4:18pm |
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You need to determine why it's excessive before a remedy can be suggested. You haven't said how you're making the measurement, or what state of disassembly the engine is in. Are you using a dial indicator against the pulley, or flywheel flange? Or feeler gauges between crank & bearing flange? The bearing thrust faces might just be worn out, but that still seems like a lot of wear even for those. Sean
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Old Boy
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 5:27pm |
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Hi Sean,
The crank is still in the engine with all bearing caps on. At the time of measuring I had only removed the oil pan and flywheel. Since I have removed the timing cover and the crank sprocket, the cam gear is still on. I took the measurement using a Dial Test Indictor aganst the rear of the crank flange where the flywhell bolts on. All parts are in place and the bearing surfaces look in very good condition.
It is not uncommon on some engines to grind the sidewalls and fit wider main bearings. eg GM's 2.2 Ecotec uses the center main to control endfloat thus wears and can require grinding as mine did here in the UK. The wider bearing was available.
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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sean
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 5:56pm |
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So to be sure, the crank gear was still firmly seated, & holding the thrust washer in place?
Then it's got to be either worn out bearing thrust faces, or something amiss w/crankshaft. Reference to "extra thick" bearings was not generic, but specific to this engine. Willys had no such available, nor have I seen them available from current vendors. Take #1 cap off & measure thrust face thicknesses. I've got new bearings to compare against.
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Old Boy
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 6:04pm |
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Thank you Sean, I will take off no.1 cap now and get back to you.
Just to be clear all bearing caps and timing gear were all tight. The engine ran very well before I took it out. Andy.
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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Old Boy
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 6:31pm |
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Hi Sean, I have removed no.1 main cap. The bearing looks almost new. The sidewall part of the bearing measures 2.22mm or 0.0874". It looks to me that too much metal has been ground off the rear of the crank where it sits aganst the rear main bearing. Technically the crank must be scrap but as it ran I think I will have to shim it! Andy.
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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sean
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 6:48pm |
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You're quick Andy! I haven't got out to measure new bearings yet, will do so shortly.
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Old Boy
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 7:08pm |
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I am sure the bearing is not at fault. There is something a miss with the crank somewhere????? Maybe the crank is from a different Willys engine? Is there any dimentions I could check. I have a access to large digital calipers etc ( 1000mm long ).
One more question, should the rear main bearing have a side wall? Mine does not.
Sorry to be a pain.
Andy.
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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sean
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 7:24pm |
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Andy:
When you took the crank gear off, were there any shims or spacers between it & thrust washer & crankshaft journal? The length of the front journal is specified at 1.923-1.927". Can you measure yours? My concern would be with both connecting rod alignment, and timing gear alignment. If the crank thrust face has been ground off .070", and you shim it to spec from the front-side, then each rod will be .070" forward of ideal cylinder bore center, and the crank gear will be .070 out of mesh w/the cam gear. Only the front bearing has "sidewalls". Sean
Edited by sean - 21 Sep. 2009 at 7:41pm |
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dwloop
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 7:36pm |
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Did you put the crank pulley, sprocket, spacer and shim stack back on before checking?? That is what controls the end play. I don't see where you said you had that on and torqued while performing the check...
Dave Edited by dwloop - 21 Sep. 2009 at 7:38pm |
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80 CJ7 401
76 CJ5 360 46 CJ2A #45208 All works in progress, or regress depending on your view... |
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sean
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 7:39pm |
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I didn't think this through right.
Assuming the crank thrust face has been ground down, adding standard shims to the front side can only increase endplay! You would have to add non-standard shims to the backside of the bearing, or find bearings w/over-thick thrust flanges. Sean
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Old Boy
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 7:49pm |
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Hi dwloop, crank was fully assembled before checking.
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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dwloop
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 8:52pm |
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What does the shim stack measure in thousands? Like Sean said, you remove shims to reduce the end play... HTH
Dave
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76 CJ5 360 46 CJ2A #45208 All works in progress, or regress depending on your view... |
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Old Boy
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 9:24pm |
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Hello again,
My journal measures 1.925", so is good. I have reassembled the crank end parts. I require a spacer between the gear and the thrust washer about 1/8" thick, see photo.
This will give correct endfloat and the con rods line up with the pistons.
  There was one shim in the assembly, 0.002" but it was between the washer and the crank??? I think the cause of my endfloat is one of the following reasons1. Wrong crankshaft with too great a distance between the crank journal and the shoulder, see photo. Mine measures 44mm or 1.732".
2. Thrust washer is too thin.
3. Drive gear too thin/wrong gear for CJ2A.
What do you think?
Andy.
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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dwloop
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 9:35pm |
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Seems like someting is holding the pulley, oil slinger, spacer or gear from tightening all the way down.
The
EDIT: Sorry I was using the incorrect terminology, the piece in front of the gear is the spacer, the thrust washer is behind and tightens to the shoulder of the crankshaft, with shims between it and the bearing...
Hope all this makes sense.
Dave Edited by dwloop - 21 Sep. 2009 at 9:42pm |
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80 CJ7 401
76 CJ5 360 46 CJ2A #45208 All works in progress, or regress depending on your view... |
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Old Boy
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 9:41pm |
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The shoulder on the pulley sits aganst the shoulder on the crank. Can anyone tell me some dimensions to check please. This is getting interesting! Thanks again for all the help guys!
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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Old Boy
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Posted: 21 Sep. 2009 at 9:42pm |
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Can I please see a photo of this spacer, I don't think I have one?
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46 CJ2A 29488, Harvest Tan, Sunset red wheels.
99 TJ. 2015 Ford Kuga Ecoboost. |
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Old Boy wrote: