Electro-Willys conversion |
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m38mike
Member Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3796 |
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2009 at 2:51pm |
I finally did it. I went over the edge. Last summer when diesel hit $5/gallon I decided to make an electric commuter car. But I didn't want a Geo or a VW Bug or a 911. I wanted a Willys. I found a good donor vehicle in a back alley in Denver. (amazing where you'll go to get a good deal) This is what I started with.
It had all the right things wrong with it. It had an F-head engine in it, complete with the hole in the hood. Almost all the wiring was original, and dryrotted beyond use. The seats needed replacing, but the frames were both still good. It has the wrong rims and tires. and the sheet steel has dings and dents that would really distract from a good restoration. So this became my goal - try to make this jeep look decent - not show room nice - but pass the 20 foot test - and run on only electricity. I stripped it down and sandblasted it to get the loose paint off, and clean the places I'd need to do a bit more cosmetic work. I was lucky with this one. There was no holes rusted through the body. Even the hat channels are still solid. After doing some body work, like repairing the right side tailgate latch, and bondo filling a few dents I could not pound out, it was ready for color. Then I primed and painted the whole jeep, inside and out, top to bottom, frame, axles, even inside the tool box, as a complete unit. I shot primer, then paint, then rolled it out and began rebuilding some of it. The only gauge that I left in it was the speedometer. I put a 12v battery in the battery box on the cowl so I'd have power for brake lights. And that is the only wire circuit that's in the jeep at this time. I replaced the original M38 tail light covers with Gamma Goat lenses so I'd have larger red lenses that still look military. I repaired and installed the tailgate. I had a set of CJ rims that look like M38 rims. They got painted and I mounted a set of 7.00x16 NDT's. I mounted a spare seat from another jeep because the seat covers I'd ordered were not in yet. I'll break the post here, and continue with some of the conversion process in the next comment. |
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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m38mike
Member Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3796 |
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I towed it down to a conversion shop that just opened in Salida. They convert gas engine vehicles to all electric drive. I'd talked with them a few times before deciding to work with them. They had the expertise (I thought) and they had the tools. And since they were just starting out, they quoted me a very good price. I couldn't buy the parts retail for what they said they could do the job for. They bought wholesale from the different manufacturers. So into the job we went. Here's a photo of the first motor we put into the jeep. The bars above the motor are the battery rack for the front end.
This was a 9 inch diameter DC motor. We originally designed a system that would use the 9 inch motor and TWENTY 6v batteries to run on 120 volts. That's almost 3/4's of a ton of batteries! We trimmed it back a little and went with Fifteen 8v batteries instead. We decided to up the batteries to 18-8v after doing a bit more math. That increased the voltage to 144v. That gave me more potential power, but fewer (<20) batteries reduced my driving range. The front rack will only hold 8 batteries so we put the rest where the back seat usually goes. The controller and charger and other parts went where the gas tank should be. That protects the parts from weather, and gives them good ventilation for cooling. We tested it out and had fun driving around town with it - but it just wasn't up to speed for driving the state highway I take to work each day. We reworked the equations for power, torque, voltage, and amperage and found that we were a little bit short of our targets. So we changed out the 9 inch motor for an 11 inch motor. Much better performance, but still not up to standard. Even with 2.5 Kw in the battery pack we couldn't make highway speed. Since this motor is capable of driving full size pickup EV's at 70+ mph we knew it wasn't the motor that was keeping us slow. We figured out that the controller is what is holding us back. So now we need to reprogram the controller. Unfortunately during much of this conversion, the company experienced growing pains. Finally they fell apart and are now going through legal action to break up. The 3 owners did not have the same business philosophy, and now each is going their own way. I'm still working separately with 2 of the 3 to get this jeep road worthy. But it's been a slower process than I'd like. On the up side they like working on the jeep because it's so simple mechanically compared to more modern vehicles. And they like the rugged good looks too. So do many of the new clients of the restructured conversion company. Edited by m38mike - 18 Feb. 2009 at 4:33pm |
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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Randy Snyder
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Terre Haute, IN Status: Offline Points: 1566 |
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Very interesting Mike. I really enjoyed reading your progress on your website.
What performance are you getting? Speed/distance/time to recharge?
Thanks,
Randy
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'46 2A #13943
'46 2A #26236 '45 T3-C #436 |
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westforkboyd
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Sep. 2006 Location: Northern Iowa Status: Offline Points: 3514 |
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That really cleaned up nice Mike! You are really moving along quickly with that since the fall. What a cool and completly unique Jeep. Another of the many projects you have going. And for those interested Mike knows of every old Jeep within 100 miles of his place! He took me on a short tour of backyards and alleys Where many are hiding. I hardly had time to evaluate one when he was showing me a couple more.
WFB
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'48 CJ-2A #184135 Lefty
'49 CJ-2A #219719 Mule '39 Ford 9N '55 Oliver Super 55 Ollybelle |
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m38mike
Member Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3796 |
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Hi Randy,
So far the top speed has been around 40 mph. We haven't gone for total distance yet, but we've been able to run over 40 miles on one charge. It takes about 6-8 hours for a full recharge. We've got a 3 stage charger onboard. I just plug into any 110v outlet. We're thinking that by reprogramming the controller we should be able to get the jeep up to 60+ mph sustained. Total distance is a function of speed with an electric system. More speed = shorter distance. At 35 mph I've got enough energy in the battery pack to run over 60 miles. I just haven't tested it yet because we've been focused on getting the performance up. The controller has a half-dozen settings to adjust, with dozens of possible settings in each one. So we've got hundreds of possible combinations to work through. |
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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Jus*Jack
Member Joined: 15 Mar. 2007 Location: so. Georgia Status: Offline Points: 1841 |
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Looks great Mike! As does the site. Congratulate Ellen for a nice job on that! (Bet she didn't take that picture of the controller/charger/etc. area though! <g>)
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Seeya!
<Jack> '48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug" '48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise" |
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m38mike
Member Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3796 |
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Thanks Allen, Thanks Jack.
yeah it's been fun and frustrating. I'd hoped to be using it full time by now. But I want it running right before I make the last payment. I've got to give Ellen full credit for the web site. And as you guessed, I'm the poor photographer. We've got a few more photos we'll add later, like the new motor. What a beast that one is! |
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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Dougie
Member Joined: 06 July 2007 Location: Colorado Springs Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Nice project!
I have a Honda Insight, and spend a lot of time thinking about drag. You might want to consider replacing your NDT tires with street tires to reduce the drag. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but the best tires for low drag have thin sidewalls (flexible) and high pressure. That way, the energy cost of flexing of the sidewalls--which is what causes most of the drag--is minimized. Heavy off-road tires with thick rubber and low pressures are just about the worst possible for low drag. On the Insight they use a 165-65R14 tire which would be pretty tiny on a Jeep. But a skinny passenger car tire would certainly be better than the thick NDT tires. On the Insight, tire drag is about half of the total at speeds in the 40 mph range. Obviously a Jeep is going to have a much higher amount of wind resistance as you get going faster! |
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wyowillys46
Member Joined: 05 Aug. 2005 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 1453 |
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Nice job Mike! I thought it looked pretty good sitting in front of the house. And now it has new paint and it moves. You sure are making progress quickly on it.
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1946 #27869
Take a look at my webpage: <a href="http://wyowillys46.awardspace.com">Wyowillys46</a> |
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m38mike
Member Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3796 |
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Thanks Dougie,
Yup, the drag has been a drag on this project. As nice as jeeps look, they have all the aerodynamics of a brick! We've got 40 psi in each tire right now and they seem to roll pretty well. But I agree that a smoother, thinner tire would work better. I may run these for a while then replace them with a clean high-mileage tread. Only problem with that is when I use it to commute in the winter, those treads won't be very good either. (as if NDTs at 40+ psi were any good in snow!) I've got the motor needed to overcome the high air resistance, and the rolling resistance from the NDT tires. I just need to make sure I've got enough juice in my batteries to get me there and back again. I remain hopefull. After all, if a full size pickup truck can do it with the same setup I have, then I can do it too. I'm half the weight of the pickup. And besides, I've got a great power to weight ratio - almost 50-50 - battery pack to rest of vehicle. |
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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rballagh
Member Joined: 19 Aug. 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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I've been curious about this for awhile. . . . Better than I had hoped - Great project
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Ryan
48 CJ2A #176544 "Rodeo Red" Mixed salad CJ3A mostly |
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rocnroll
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Tuscumbia, AL Status: Offline Points: 13584 |
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And ya'll call me a 'modifier' ..... good job Mike. Hope you get it all set up and have a lot of interest in it from alll fronts. Maybe it'll cause some 'thinking outside the box' by some of the 'powers that be'.
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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BillF
Member Joined: 02 Oct. 2005 Location: Hillsborough NH Status: Offline Points: 1133 |
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I have often thought that it would be a cool project. Looks great. I am a little sad to see an m38 not in orginal form but what you are doing is really cool. I am sure the 4x4 system takes a lot of juice as well.
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Viasa
Member Joined: 06 Apr. 2007 Location: Southern Colorado Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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It's looking good. Glad to hear you got it rolling around town, can't wait to see it.
Luis
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46 CJ2A (yard decoration)
48 CJ2A 45 to 53 Jeep salad |
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BillF
Member Joined: 02 Oct. 2005 Location: Hillsborough NH Status: Offline Points: 1133 |
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Do you think the 5.38:1 axle gears might kill your top end and range? Motor has to spin much faster and use more energy at the higher speeds. Maybe a set of 3.73 would help. keep in mind I dont really have an electrical background so I maybe off base.
Edited by BillF - 12 Jan. 2009 at 1:10pm |
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m38mike
Member Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3796 |
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Thanks rballagh, Roc, Bill, and Viasa,
Of all the flatties out there I could have used for a conversion, I thought the M38 would handle it best because of the stronger frame and springs. I should have measured the difference in height from the empty condition to fully loaded with all the batteries and hardware. It squats down like it's loaded.
Roc, the current Salida Conversion shop owner is using the jeep as a show piece to get the interest of both the government and some big business' to invest in this business. That's been part of the delay in getting it done. Right now, Pete, the surviving owner, is the only one in the business who understands how to put it all together and make it work. He's got a couple of mechanics working for him who are good, but they don't understand the electronics part of the conversion.
Bill, yes the 5.38:1 ratio definitely slows me down some, but that actually works in my favor. Based on the Blue Mule tachometer, when I'm doing 55 mph I'm running at 3600 rpm with similar axles. The 11 inch electric motor has a range of 0-8,000 rpm. At 3600 rpm it can produce 120 ft/lbs of torque and the equivalent of 80 hp. More than enough power to keep me at 55 mph. If I put 3.73:1 axles under it I would actually increase the torque by slowing the electric motor down at 55 mph, but my hp would also be down. The electric motors have HUGE torque at lower rpm, but low hp at low rpm. Torque drops drastically as rpm increases. That's why hills can really affect an EV when it's driven at highway speeds.
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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BillF
Member Joined: 02 Oct. 2005 Location: Hillsborough NH Status: Offline Points: 1133 |
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Great infromation. I would love a rig like that.
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dennisanvil
Member Joined: 07 June 2008 Location: ia Status: Offline Points: 1645 |
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does the 4-wheel drive hurt you. it take some power even when the axle not engage.by the way nice job on the jeep
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dennisanvil 1948 cj2a, maker of tailgate hooks & hand forge iron ware
there not any knowen cure for jeep fever. serial # 164136< |
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