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Electro-Willys conversion

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bkreutz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2009 at 3:46pm
Looking good Mike. Are you going to put the recharging receptacle in the gas filler hole? 
Gale

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2009 at 4:21pm
I'm probably going to put an all weather box with a receptacle in that hole.  Then I'll distribute 110v power to the pack charger, a 12v charger for the light and heater battery, and to the heater pads/cables that I may use to heat the batteries in the winter.  After all, warm batteries are happy batteries Big smile LOL.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2009 at 4:32pm
Another option is a 110v heater for the cab. We used to do that when I worked in Alaska (mainly so the vinyl seats wouldn't shatter) but it makes for toasty buns when you get in. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichardD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2009 at 12:44am
Just found this thread, and read it all. Excellent story. Mike you sure have lots of patience.
 
Not to beat a dead horse here..... I understand that George at Netgain is trying to do what he can for you, but it sure looks to me that he should have told you about the deal with Salida FIRST, before you sent it back. If he had questions about your relationship with Salida, he should have asked. Kinda shifty, I'd run it by a Lawyer just for kicks. I also understand that the $1000 is a deal for the motor, but you have no control whatsoever over Pete sending back the motors, so as Jpet said, he's holding you, and your motor for ransom.
 
You have gained a ton of knowledge (even though I think you knew more than Pete to start with), and are doing some fantastic work.
 
Please keep us posted, and enjoy Moab!
 
Be well,
Richard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2009 at 4:57am
Gale,
I'm thinking about your heater idea, but on a separate cord with a timer.  I don't need to heat it all night long.  Just for a half hour or so before I head to work.  When I was in Alaska, we just plugged in our block heaters, then started the vehicle 5 minutes before we planned to leave.  I had my Blue Mule up there.  There was no sense in running a heater in the cab - I had no rear window!

Richard,
The reason George didn't warn me about the problem with Pete's payments was because I had received the motor long enough ago that it could have been one that Pete did pay for.  George did not have the serial number until he received it.  It was only when he cross checked the serial number with his debt register did he discover the status as unpaid.  Yes, I know that Pete is holding the big hole card in this deal.  But what he doesn't know is that if he holds it too long, then I'm playing my hole card.  And that's going to the sheriff, my neighbor, and file a complaint against Pete for selling stolen goods.  Since the value is in the thousands of dollars, that'll bring his card game to a close pretty fast.  I've got the entire email trail I've shared with George that I can use as evidence. 

If I do that, then I have no hope of collecting the last few items in my contract that are still outstanding.  Maybe I'm being naive, but I still have that over Pete, and I continue to push.  Perhaps I should simply go to small claims court and file for a refund on some of what I've paid already to recoup $$ in lieu of what he owes me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichardD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2009 at 5:34am
Hey again Mike.
 
I hope that Pete wakes up and does what's right for you, it WOULD be in his best interest, as I believe he's lookin' at some jail time.
 
I wish you the best, and hope that it all works out in your favor. I had forgotten that you mentioned a contract, and you have your correspondance with George too. Glad to see that you do have YOUR hole card. You should just forget about it for the week, go to Moab, and then see where his head's at when you return.
 
Be well,
Richard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John 46-2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr. 2009 at 5:05am
Mike when you get your motor back and you go to install it do you have enough room to connect it with a love-joy coupler? Ive used some fairly large ones. They will take being out of alighnment and are designed to take a shock load. John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr. 2009 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by John 46-2a John 46-2a wrote:

Mike when you get your motor back and you go to install it do you have enough room to connect it with a love-joy coupler? Ive used some fairly large ones. They will take being out of alighnment and are designed to take a shock load. John
 
I've been trying to think of what that style coupler was called and for the life of me couldn't remember the right name. This is what was used on most if not all the industrial applications I've seen. I think John has made an excellent suggestion. They will take the shock as there is a rubber type component in the coupling. Worth checking into for what you are trying to accomplish.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr. 2009 at 4:05pm
John and Allen,
I looked at lovejoy couplers earlier, and yes they are good for this type of use.  In fact I recommended to Pete that we use one when we were first putting the motor in, but he had "a better way".  Truth was he didn't have a clue what a lovejoy coupler was.  The one problem that I have with using one here is that the synchro in the t-90 tranny is 40's technology, and it's designed to work with almost no pressure on the gears.  A spinning clutch is very light weight and provides that "no pressure" situation that allows the synchro to work.  A spinning 11 inch armature in a DC motor does not.  That sucker weighs over a hundred pounds.  Just in the short time that I was able to drive the jeep, I realized that getting the electric motor to spin at exactly the same speed as the tranny when I'm between gears is not an easy thing to do.  There's no engine sound to tell you if you're too fast or too slow.  And as tough as it was to slide into either 2nd or 3rd, that made me decide to go back to the clutch.  The clutch plate will give me some minor flexibility for allignment, and it'll drive like a jeep.  I will have to be carefull not to over-rev the engine.  I don't want it flying apart on me!  If I used a lovejoy coupler, the motor would always be spinning or dragging the tranny input shaft.  There would be no way to disconnect it to help with the shifting.  The last thing I want to do is have to replace my synchro gears every few months.

I appreciate the suggestions, but I need to protect the tranny so it'll work for years to come.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willys54wagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr. 2009 at 4:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichardD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr. 2009 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by m38mike m38mike wrote:

Just in the short time that I was able to drive the jeep, I realized that getting the electric motor to spin at exactly the same speed as the tranny when I'm between gears is not an easy thing to do.  There's no engine sound to tell you if you're too fast or too slow.  And as tough as it was to slide into either 2nd or 3rd, that made me decide to go back to the clutch.  The clutch plate will give me some minor flexibility for allignment, and it'll drive like a jeep.  I will have to be carefull not to over-rev the engine.  I don't want it flying apart on me!  If I used a lovejoy coupler, the motor would always be spinning or dragging the tranny input shaft.  There would be no way to disconnect it to help with the shifting.  The last thing I want to do is have to replace my synchro gears every few months.
 
Hey again Mike.
 
I couldn't find in the thread where you mentioned having a tachometer on the dash. Although I have seen that you mentioned about what rpm you have in what gear, so I'm not sure if you have one or not. But, if you don't, I would think that there are outputs that you could pull off of the motor (or the controller, as I'm fairly sure that the controller would need that input) to hook one up so that you'd have a better idea of how fast the motor is turning while shifting/driving/wheeling since you can't hear it. I'm also thinking that it might give you an idea of where to have the motor rpm wise that's safe when you go to shift with the clutch from one gear to the next (plus it gives you how high you took the motor if you shift wrong too).
 
Be well,
Richard


Edited by RichardD - 03 Apr. 2009 at 5:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepfreak81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr. 2009 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by RichardD RichardD wrote:

Originally posted by m38mike m38mike wrote:

Just in the short time that I was able to drive the jeep, I realized that getting the electric motor to spin at exactly the same speed as the tranny when I'm between gears is not an easy thing to do.  There's no engine sound to tell you if you're too fast or too slow.  And as tough as it was to slide into either 2nd or 3rd, that made me decide to go back to the clutch.  The clutch plate will give me some minor flexibility for allignment, and it'll drive like a jeep.  I will have to be carefull not to over-rev the engine.  I don't want it flying apart on me!  If I used a lovejoy coupler, the motor would always be spinning or dragging the tranny input shaft.  There would be no way to disconnect it to help with the shifting.  The last thing I want to do is have to replace my synchro gears every few months.
 
Hey again Mike.
 
I couldn't find in the thread where you mentioned having a tachometer on the dash. Although I have seen that you mentioned about what rpm you have in what gear, so I'm not sure if you have one or not. But, if you don't, I would think that there are outputs that you could pull off of the motor (or the controller, as I'm fairly sure that the controller would need that input) to hook one up so that you'd have a better idea of how fast the motor is turning while shifting/driving/wheeling since you can't hear it. I'm also thinking that it might give you an idea of where to have the motor rpm wise that's safe when you go to shift with the clutch from one gear to the next (plus it gives you how high you took the motor if you shift wrong too).
 
Be well,
Richard


I was just going to suggest a tachometer myself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr. 2009 at 11:50pm
Steve,
That's a great photo site for setting up a lovejoy coupler.  Unfortunately for those guys, they're taking the process backwards.  they're going from a lovejoy to a rigid connector.  I think that's going to cause either their motor or the tranny to fail eventually.  But they did one thing right.  They worked hard on getting the allignment exactly right before they installed it all in the car.  I'm considering doing that to help with reducing any mis-alignment that I'm sure to have.  It's a bunch of work since I need to remove the tranny and transfer cases, then bolt them up to the motor, then put it all back in again.  But for the long term it may be the best way to do it. 

I think the first thing I need to do is check the motor mount plate to see if it's centered on the tranny shaft, and check to be sure it's square to it too.  If that's off, then fixing it will be first on my list.  I guess if I've got to rebuild all there sh....tuff, then I might as well rebuild ALL of it.

RichardD and jeepfreak81,
You both are on the right track.  I've got a tach in my Blue Mule, and it has the same running gear that Electro-Willys has.  That's how I know what engine/motor rpm I have at what speed in each gear.  But you're right, I need to get a tach for E-W, ESPECIALLY since I can't hear the motor!  Maybe something like this one:
Meter, Tachometer 3&amp;quot;, Round, 0-7000 rpm
Item #IN2550
Price  $186.70
Weight: lb. .88
< name="ac" value="add" =""> < name="item_id" value="888" =""> Order Quantity: < name="item_quantities888" value="0" size="4" length="4" ="if .keyCode==13 " ="" ="text"> < name="item_ids" value="888" ="">

Tachometer, 3" round, 0-7000 RPM by Westach. Use IN2551 tach sender.

I could mount this on my steering column pretty easy and then I'd know what the motor was doing in any gear.  I'd also know if I was operating in the motor's "sweet spot" of 2500-3500 rpm.  That's where the motor looses the least power to arcing and sparking, and is most efficient at giving me torque.  I've got a tail shaft on the motor that has nothing connected to it - YET!  That would be a great place for the magnets and sensor for this tach.  Looks like it's time for more instruments.  Pretty soon this jeep will look like a helicopter cockpit!


Edited by m38mike - 04 Apr. 2009 at 2:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John 46-2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr. 2009 at 4:05am
Mike.You coupleing problem still bothers me.here is some more to look at,Road ranger-spicer transmissions for comercial trucks have an optional trans that the only time you need to use the clutch is from a stopped position after that you have the option of hitting a button to change gears.Twin disc I think it was used to have a fluid coupleing and from the marine side you can get a drive plate which is like a clutch without the disc.But the best bet may be to get ahold of a detroit alleson dealer they may know of something that would fit your needs.Good luck.Oh ya If your trans had a tac and your motor your problem is solved.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr. 2009 at 8:17pm
Hi John, I think the idea of the spicer tranny sounds good, but remember, I'm on a budget here.  I've gotta make it work as cheaply as I can while trying not to compromise the desired performance.  I've had a chance to talk with some other DIY EV builders, and they say that keeping the clutch is a good option.  They have had good luck doing that.  Again the biggest concern is not over-revving the motor.  That just takes a little driver discipline to not be heavy-footed. 
 
But to help me know when I'm pushing the limit on rpm's, I've talked with a couple of vendors about tachometers that I can use.  I found a source or two for 2 inch tachs that will fit nicely into the gauge panel on my dash.  No new holes to cut, no odd gauges hanging out somewhere.  It should make for a very neat, professional looking installation.  I'm just waiting on a quote to find out what the damage will be to my wallet. 
 
On another note, And a very positive one it is, Pete took the Netgain motors to the local freight depot yesterday.  HOORAY!!  I got an email from George at Netgain telling me I should be getting my motor next week.  Being patient paid off in this case.  I guess I'm going to have to get busy with the rest of my wiring so I'll be ready for the motor when it arrives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John 46-2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr. 2009 at 12:34am
Keep us posted.You probabley know this but.When we have to align the bellhousing on the deisels and the big electric motors we do it with a dial indicator, run the indictor around the inside machined lip.You might be able to come up wiht your own varyation.John 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr. 2009 at 1:31am
Great news Mike, sounds like things are getting better. About time.
Gale

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichardD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr. 2009 at 5:45am
Hey again Mike.
 
I agree with your decision not to mount the tach on the column or cut a new hole, that'll look best for sureThumbs Up.
 
Glad to hear that Pete came to his senses, and that your patience paid off too!
 
How was Moab?
 
Be well,
Richard


Edited by RichardD - 09 Apr. 2009 at 5:46am
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