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Cluth Adjustment Problems

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gibster4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gibster4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2012 at 4:03am
Why do I have this Neanderthal scull picture every time I post?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harveynailbanger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2012 at 4:04am
while preparing to put a tranny back in a rig tonite i was thinking about you and looked specifically at the t-o brearing and fork setup. i didnt take measurements but an inch of bearing travel is about right. i will measure maximum travel tomorrow if you want.
 
rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2012 at 4:44am
LOL ROFLMAO, I bet that was a ride of a life time on the Snowcat with the clutch stuck. Yes, it would be hard to install backwards but strange things get done. Just asked to be sure, no harm intended.
Life is only as good as you make it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gibster4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2012 at 2:57pm
What a wild ride down the main ski slope that was, 6 tons of tracked vehicle pulling ever faster and faster. I had just made Eagle Scout, and it was all over the front page of the local paper. The council almost took the award back. I wanted to jump, but their were skiers everywhere, so I rode it out and managed not to kill anyone, and managed to stop it when I got to the bottom. The Foreman came out, a little while later and said I have good news and Bad news, the good news is you get to go home early today, the bad news is 'You're Fired'. I was Young and had a lot of laughs about this over the years, sitting around the camp fire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gibster4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2012 at 9:49pm
Unfortunately I am not PC savvy enough to figure out how to get pictures posted here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gibster4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2012 at 9:59pm
OK I reversed the tube,  and while I had it out I can now see that the Aframe ends are of different heights, so which one is supposed to be where? The long one on the frame rail side or the long one on the transmission side. I have tried it both ways, and neither way solves my problem.  With the shorter one on the frame rail side, I seem to get more travel out of the T/O Bearing, but now the pedal is much harder to push.

But  now matter how tight I adjust the cable, even with no free play, I am still not moving the fingers enough to release the clutch disc??????????????????????

I have once again taken the fork out, and the pivot ball, to check for wear, and to see if the fork is bent, both are perfectly OK.

I guess it's time to pull the engine once more?!@*

If I put washers under the pressure plate, when I attach it to the flywheel this time, it won't be so tight against the clutch disc, but I worry about hill climbing and heavy load, that it could now slip, if I do that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr. 2012 at 12:15am
I'm thinking you may have the wrong clutch assembly or mismatched parts. If it was working when you tore it down it should still work. 

This reminds me of when I was overhauling a trk punkin when I worked in a trk shop. I told the shop manager I may have to machine a part to get it back together. He said, that's mighty strange since those same parts work for everyone else. I found out I was putting it together wrongEmbarrassed but your problem may be the parts.


Edited by Carlsjeep - 28 Apr. 2012 at 12:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr. 2012 at 12:48am
Couple of other things to check, does the input shaft rotate freely in the flywheel bushing? and if the flywheel has been turned or ground, are the bolts that bolt it to the crank sticking up too high and hitting? I'm suspicious of my bolts and will check it as I put my F head back together soon. I think I saw rubbing marks on my bolts when I tore it dowm. If so, you may have to grind them down a little for clearance. I think you have checked the rest. Confused John
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sean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr. 2012 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by gibster4 gibster4 wrote:

I have once again taken the fork out, and the pivot ball, ...
Did you happen to replace the fork pivot ball?  Some repros are the wrong length:

http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=196583

Quote ... I can now see that the Aframe ends are of different heights, so which one is supposed to be where? The long one on the frame rail side or the long one on the transmission side...
Long arm to transmission.  This arm should set further inward on the tube than the other end. See:

http://www.cj-2a.com/parts_list/index.php?load=detail&807

Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldSalt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr. 2012 at 5:41pm
It may not directly relate to your problem, but I'm curious as to why the throw out bearing burned up after so short a trip.  I've seen many many people ride their foot on the clutch so the TO bearing is turning all the time and not have any problems. 

I saw a thread on another forum recently where the guy had the TO bearing on the bearing carrier backwards.  He had similar problems with the pressure plate being ruined.    Any chance that happened here? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gibster4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2012 at 3:11pm
I've had to get away from this jeep, for a couple of days, as I was having strong desires to send it to the crusher, wanting to watch it as was being crushed, clapping my hands in glee and also wanting to jump up and down on it after it was crushed. I am even contemplating having a preist come over and throw holy water on the jeep.

The T/O bearing has a sort of flat side, so that is the side that seems to be correct for the side to go against the fingers, and also the back side snaps onto the T/O carrier to hold it in place. So yes I think it is on correctly.  At least this is how I have always seen them installed and have always installed them myself, over the years.

I thought it burned up rather fast myself, the first time......and it was an American made one, Mfd in Lancaster, PA.

It would actually seem to me, that a longer 'Pivot Ball', would help my situation, since my fork seems to be going all the to the back of the bell housing, and still isn't disengaging the clutch.

I have decides to order all new parts, Pivot tube assembly complete with new frame pivot balls & tube springs, etc., a new fork, T/O bearing, carrier, and pivot ball, adjustment cable and yoke.

I am sending the old pressure plate to a machine shop to have it resurfaced, and intend on re-installing it, instead of the new one. I am convinced the new ones are wrong.

One worry I have is that the old pressure plate is slightly smaller than the replacement, and the original clutch disc, is smaller in diameter, than the replacement. The original clutch disc is down to the rivets, so I can't re-install that one. The old pressure plate does fit over the new clutch disc, but the surface of the pressure plate, which touches the clutch disc is smaller than the clutch disc, by about an 1/8th of an inch. This means as it wears a ridge will develop, over time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2012 at 2:51am
I know how you feel. Many's the times I would like to load a shotgun and blast away at what was giving me trouble. Fortunately I overcame that urge and worked on a solution.

Who did you buy the clutch assembly from? Have you talked to them? How about calling Walcks and telling them what is going on. BobW on the CJ3 site is friendly and real good with Jeeps, PM him.

Isn't there a CJ2 or CJ3 member somewhere close to gibster? Gibster, have you asked on the CJ3 site? I mean, come on fellows, it's time to give him some help. If I lived within 100 miles I would definitely drive over to help. Sometimes it's good to have someone else look at a problem. They may see something you missed, it has helped be at times to have other eyes look at it. 

I think you may have the wrong clutch. Put the old one back in and see if it releases. I am very suspicious of the new clutch. All your trouble started with the new clutch, right?


Edited by Carlsjeep - 30 Apr. 2012 at 2:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harveynailbanger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2012 at 5:12am
the disc should not be larger than the pressure plate surface, if you have a new disc get the new pressure plate that goes with it.
pivot rod goes long arm to the trans, clutch cable attached to this arm.
short arm pointing down, rod to pedal.
Rick
 
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/clutch-release-cable_topic9976.html  shows service bulletin and different size clutch cables.
 
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/clutch-install-help_topic12497_post103370.html?KW=clutch+rod+length#103370    in this thread first pic shows control rod too long, tranny side should be straight up and frame side- straight down.
 
also read a thread one time where member made an adjustable rod using all thread and adjustable yokes.


Edited by Harveynailbanger - 30 Apr. 2012 at 5:52am
if the grass is greener on the other side, try waterin your grass.
"I hope I'm half the person that my dogs think I am"
I only do what the voices in my toolbox tell me to.
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gibster4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gibster4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2012 at 2:51pm
Both The clutch Disc and the Pressure Plate are new.
I am convinced the new pressure plate is not manufactured correctly, so I want to put the old Pressure plate back in, but it is smaller in diameter, as is the old clutch disc. @ 7-1/2".
The old clutch disc is shot - can not be re-used. The smallest new clutch disc available is 8-1/2.
So now I am stuck again, no one resurfaces old clutches anymore, the new pressure plate doesn't work, and now if I use the old pressure plate the clutch disc is larger than the pressure plate.

The pressure plate and clutch came from D&L Bensinger, in PA. - they I the first one who has ever had a problem with this stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2012 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by gibster4 gibster4 wrote:

... I want to put the old Pressure plate back in, but it is smaller in diameter, as is the old clutch disc. @ 7-1/2"...
That's not CJ-2A.  Might be an MB clutch (they were smaller).  Which makes it possible that some of the other parts are also MB, and ya can't mix-n-match MB with CJ-2A clutch control parts.

Quote The smallest new clutch disc available is 8-1/2.
That's correct CJ-2A

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bretto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2012 at 4:35pm
Have you tried putting a washer under the fork pivot ball to give the fork a little more throw?  I can't remember how long the post is to say if it is possible or not to be safe.  I dont like suggesting things like this as the problem lies somewhere else but it may be enough to get you going.
Brett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gibster4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2012 at 8:16pm
I have actually considered this option, but with my fat hands this is a hard thing to do, not impossible though. But, like you say, the problem is probably elsewhere, and I would like to get it fixed right.

I am currently waiting for parts, and then I intend to replace absolutely everything under the chasis and in the bell housing.

Pulling the engine now for the 3rd time.

Gib 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2012 at 9:09pm
Old Salt made mention of the throw out bearing being installed backwards. 
 
This link may be the conversation he is refering to.  There are some photos which may help.  In the photo I posted, you will see the fork is broken right where it sits on the pivot.  (I did replace it)
 
But note in Ryans photo, the bearing is on backwards. RussellL spotted it.  Not sure if it's your problem, but worth a look, I guess.
 
Tim 
 
 
 
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