won't start |
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rannasjem
Member Joined: 22 Nov. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: 22 Nov. 2006 at 2:11pm |
I just got a '46 yesterday. I had the guy I bought it from start it up and drive it on to my trailer. When I tried to start it after i got home the starter turns but won't turn the engine over, it sounds like it stripping out. I've tried starting in every gear and in "hi" and "low" but I'm obviously missing something. Sorry for the dumb question but I'm new at this. :)
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samcj2a
Member Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 21 Oct. 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Status: Offline Points: 8549 |
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I'm assuming that, as you say, the starter spins, but the pinion gear on the starter does not seem to be fully engaging the ring gear on the flywheel so the engine does not turn over. If so, a couple of things could be happening. It may be that the battery or the connections between the battery and the starter are weak enough that the previous owner's starting it drained the battery enough that it needs a boost to provide enough juice to the starter to get the pinion to engage enough to kick overe the engine. If this scenerio seems possible, charging the battery, using jumper cables, cleaning all the many connections (grounds and positive side and starter switch connections could get you going. The starter switch itself could be making a poor connection (do you have the original foot operated starter switch or has someone changed it to start with a solenoid and remote button on the dash?)
A more annoying problem may be that the starter motor is failing and not spinning fast enough to throw the pinion towards the ring gear on the flywheel.
You could start by trying jumper cables. If that gets it cranking, then you can start tracking down the cause.
Let us know if you've got all the original 6 volt starting circuit stuff in place still since all kinds of changes get made to these puppies over time.
Oh, I forgot myself for a moment - congratulations on the purchase, and welcome! Evereyone will want to see pictures too. That can't happen fast enough! Edited by samcj2a - 22 Nov. 2006 at 2:47pm |
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GaryArf
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 21 July 2005 Location: Baxter MN Status: Offline Points: 3905 |
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Welcome here from MN.
Sams' on the right track. 6 volt needs heavy wiring and bad connections are common. Hopefully it's not the ring gear on the flywheel, this is common also. Have you tried rocking it in gear just to move the flywheel to another spot? If that works than you probably have some worn ring gear teeth.....If so let us know.
Gary
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CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500
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westforkboyd
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Sep. 2006 Location: Northern Iowa Status: Offline Points: 3514 |
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Hope you enjoy your new Willys. They sure are fun! (to work on). Check out what Gary and Sam suggested. Just had a similar problem with "Mule". Only takes about five minuts to pull the starter. Two mounting bolts, the rear bracket and the cable. Once off you can check the ring gear and the bendix gear. Then look in at the bendix spring. Thats where mine was broken. Quick and easy fix if it is. Good luck.
If you are real lucky and everything lools ok, the bendix might just be hanging up. Just lube it with wd or some light grease and reassemble. Edited by westforkboyd - 22 Nov. 2006 at 10:26pm |
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Bluax
Member Joined: 04 Feb. 2006 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 750 |
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Welcome aboard, Rannesjem. Perhaps its just the way you stated the problem but something struck me as peculiar ..... you indicated that you had tried starting it in hi and low, etc. Maybe I'm the one asking the stupid question here but are you familiar with stick shift? Did you turn the ignition on and are you either putting it in neutral or pushing the clutch in before cranking on the starter? .......... I just thought that we might start with something a bit more elementary, otherwise follow the rest of the previously mentioned suggestions. Please don't be offended but the knowledge of a new member is an unknown and comes on all different levels and I've found that some of the newer generation is totally unfamiliar with manual trannys.
Blu
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Mountains ta climb, roads ta drive an' rivers ta paddle .... now 'Ride Bambino, Ride!'
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rannasjem
Member Joined: 22 Nov. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Thanks for your replys, I will try your suggestions today and hopefully get this thing running while the weather is still somewhat nice. I have driven sticks before but they have all been 2004+ sports cars and I'm sure the 2a will be totally different (and may be different to start then new manuals for all I know). I'll get some pix up in the next week. As far as my "knowledge" you can call me a step above changing oil but eager to learn so bear with me.
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Ritt
Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Bethel CT Status: Offline Points: 1989 |
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Welcome from CT. Where are you located?
These Jeeps are so simple they're difficult to understand unless you are old enough to remember the old stuff.
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Rit
1948 2A, "RAISIN COOKIES THAT LOOK LIKE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES ARE THE MAIN REASON I HAVE TRUST ISSUES" |
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rannasjem
Member Joined: 22 Nov. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I charged the battery, took the starter out and made sure everything was free. No luck yet but here are some pix.
http://www.jeremyboht.com/1.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/2.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/3.jpg I'm from Elkhart, Indiana so if there is anyone nearby that wants to show me the ins and outs of these vehicles I would buy the beer. |
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samcj2a
Member Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 21 Oct. 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Status: Offline Points: 8549 |
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First, the Jeep looks pretty good for one that does not appear restored. That's great! The third photo seems relevant to diagnosing the starting problem. I believe that I see that the stock foot starter is missing. it would fill the holes to the right of the acelerator roughly above the floor shift. That suggests strongly to me that the Jeep has been modified - probably from the original 6 volts to a 12 volt system - and likely has a solenoid installed.
Please confirm the details above. Do ypu have a button on the dash that you push to start it? Is the battery a 12 volt battery? (has 6 cells).
While this information does not offer any explanation for why it does not start, it will be helpful for those of us trying to troubleshoot it remotely!
While your at it, try to make and post some pictures of the under hood starting components - battery, cables, starting solenoid if present. That may help somebody here.
As Rit said, these puppies are pretty simple. Edited by samcj2a - 24 Nov. 2006 at 8:50pm |
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Bluax
Member Joined: 04 Feb. 2006 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 750 |
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I like it!!!! That's the type of CJ that has potential I also think that all of the above recommendations are right on target but since they're apparently not working we've got to try something else. It sounds like that the engine is not being turned over by the starter so let's by-pass the starter completely .. put it in 3rd gear with the clutch in ..... ignition on and assure we have ample gas .... push it down a sizeable hill and when you have gained some speed let out on the clutch. Should start because it started for the PO when he put it on the trailer. If it does, we know its in the starter system. This is one way to get the engine to actually turn over; if it doesn't start tow 'er back home and start with the basics ........ the first 'basic' is to get rid of those seats and replace them with originals (it won't help the runnin' any but it'll sure look better for those folks driving by).
Blu
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Mountains ta climb, roads ta drive an' rivers ta paddle .... now 'Ride Bambino, Ride!'
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Bluax
Member Joined: 04 Feb. 2006 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 750 |
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C'mon, c'mon, Rannasjem, let's get that machine started today! Give us an update. Time's a wastin' ..... GET 'ER DONE, PUP, GET 'ER DONE n' on the road.
Ol' Blu
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Mountains ta climb, roads ta drive an' rivers ta paddle .... now 'Ride Bambino, Ride!'
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rannasjem
Member Joined: 22 Nov. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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sorry guys, I've been gone for Thanksgiving. I will give an update tomorrow and include pictures, maybe even some audio from trying to start it. Thanks for all the help so far.
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rannasjem
Member Joined: 22 Nov. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Engine pix. I pulled the starter and took some more pix. Hope this helps. Feel free to give any opinions or suggestions even if they don't have to do with this particular problem.
http://www.jeremyboht.com/4.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/5.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/6.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/7.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/8.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/9.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/10.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/11.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/12.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/13.jpg http://www.jeremyboht.com/14.jpg |
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Bluax
Member Joined: 04 Feb. 2006 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 750 |
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That engine appears fairly complete and not too badly messed up. I don't see the oil filter and of course that cupcake sitting on the carb isn't original; I prefer an original oil bath air filter. Heater hoses were noted, but don't recall seeing the heater. As said earlier, I like your new acquisition and think it has potential As far as the photos, enjoyed looking at them too but they didn't shed any new light on the situation ...... tip: should your problem be the starter take care in replacing it with the correct kind. I found out that the gear on my original mechanical foot starter wasn't compatible with the teeth on the ring gear. Got by with it for years that way but when renewing the engine I changed out the bull gear along with putting in a new compatible electrical foot starter.B
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Mountains ta climb, roads ta drive an' rivers ta paddle .... now 'Ride Bambino, Ride!'
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Cammer
Member Joined: 26 Sep. 2006 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 876 |
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Looks like a really nice jeep you'll be able to drive and work on at the same time after you get some basics fixed. I hotlinked all the pics for folks who haven't looked yet.
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sean
Moderator Group Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: North Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7388 |
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Something about that starter bendix is not right. The gear retaining
collar & spring are missing. Almost looks like the center tube is
broke off where they should be:
Here's what it should look like: Sean |
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GaryArf
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 21 July 2005 Location: Baxter MN Status: Offline Points: 3905 |
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Look at the last pic and you can see that somethings not right. Is the bushing gone also? looks like a off center wear pattern?
One more thing..The end of that shaft looks awful chewed up. Edited by GaryArf - 28 Nov. 2006 at 11:18pm |
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CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500
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westforkboyd
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Sep. 2006 Location: Northern Iowa Status: Offline Points: 3514 |
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Take off the four bolts holding the mounting throat to the starter body and it should look something like the photo. See where my spring was broken? Don't know if your's is all there. Better look inside the bell housing for the rest. Really nothing major. |
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