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observations #2 - more parts & colors
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sean View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Nov. 2006 at 10:02pm
With thanks to Bruce L. for the tip, another great period photo.  Lots of nice details to confirm prior conjecture, and introduce some new ones!

Appears to be a mid '46 to mid '47 floor shift (un-painted logo).
  • Gloss body paint.
  • Body color gas tank.
  • Cad plated lug nuts.
  • Cad plated windshield arms, latches & center lock.  Satin finish, not glossy.
  • Body color bow retainer bolt & wing nut.
  • Satin black windshield wiper motor.
  • Black wiper vacuum tube.
  • Non-adjustable, short, mirror arm.
  • Black, square, hood blocks.
  • Body color windshield pivot wing bolt.
  • Black hood catches w/ cad spring rod!
  • Cad shock retaining washer.
  • And best of all ...  cad fender bolts & flat washers, but BLACK lock washers!
See anything else? (besides the 4-button, double-breasted, pinstripe suit!)

(click for full size, 808 x 993, image)

         

Sean
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Black lower door hinge bracket (stand up type).
Black gas cap.
Body color thumb screw for windshield pivot .
 
 
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no inner windshield bumper tabs--from that relative angle standing beside mine, you can see them quite clear
 
and the canvas top turn tabs are painted black, but only the tips
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Sean,
That is a very, very good photo. Thinking about photos such as this and Bill Oaks #43 photo,  and the "delivery man photo" awhile back. There is so much that can be gleened off what one looked like in it's day......Could this be one of the categories that would fit well in the "project" here? I can't think of anymore accurate representaion of our little friend than an original photo..........I know we've been asking alot of our administrator lately and he has REALLY, REALLY stepped up to the plate on trying to get us the most accurate representation of what this was off the line.
I would hate to see this lost in the many postings to follow..
Could there be room for this pic and others along with those great video clips that have come up like "Jeepers Creepers"and the industry one, even the stuff like the three stooges was great.
 
Russ, I must be a pain in your side.
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What a great photo!!
 
Here's what I found-
 
The little bit of the two dash mounted "J hooks" that engage the windshield latches appear to be body color.  This would confirm something we found on 10371 right?
 
Plated screw on the inside of the fender in the proper location to hold part of the wire loom in the engine compartment.  Parking light wires?
 
A plated nutted bolt showing between the fender vents.  I have a hole there on my jeep.  Not sure what is supposed to be bolted there.
 
Yes, the hood blocks are black but not really square.  They look to have slightly tapered sides with the taper starting about a third of the way from the bottom.
 
Also, I think it would have to be earlier than a mid 47.  I'd put it at a very early 47 at the latest because of the parking lights.  I think that style ended somewhere around 100k.  I'd have to look it up again so I may be mistaken.
 
Thanks for posting this Sean.


Edited by Cammer - 23 Nov. 2006 at 11:10pm


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The early style door hinge brackets may hold a clue to the date.

 Also what is the black bar that is next to the front seat (to the right) also between the cute little girl and the driver?
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This photo was listed on ebay, being sold as a pic of a New Ohio Gov in a New 1950 Jeep. I dont know if it sold or not, but it sure did offer a lot of great detail, much more that I thought at first. I guess it really helps to know your stuff. Thanks Guys.
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The mirror mounting bracket? It has 4 bolts and mounted close to the door opening. Did It have to be moved when the canvas top was installed? The reason I'm asking is because on mine It was mounted further forward and lower with only 2 larger bolts.
 
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Originally posted by Lomar15 Lomar15 wrote:

The mirror mounting bracket? It has 4 bolts and mounted close to the door opening. Did It have to be moved when the canvas top was installed? The reason I'm asking is because on mine It was mounted further forward and lower with only 2 larger bolts.
 
Bob
 
On both the 2a tubs that I have, and all the ones I remember, the original outside rear view mirror was mounted exactly as shown in that pic.  At that location the mounting bolts penetrate the reinforcement bracket on the inside of the cowl so I'd say that is probably the factory mount.
 
I have seen mirrors mounted in a variety of other locations but the holes/brackets/hardware used don't seem to be factory.


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Originally posted by GaryArf GaryArf wrote:

Also what is the black bar that is next to the front seat (to the right) also between the cute little girl and the driver?
 
That is tough to figure out but it looks exactly like the tubing used in the driver's seat back.  It's the same angle and size.  Could this be some variation of the passenger seat?  Maybe a 60/40 type of set up?


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It doesn't look like it has the hole for the step below the door opening that was discussed earlier, just after the Willys Reunion.

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Sean,
 
    Per more information I got from Todd, all 2A gas tanks were painted body color. It was some time in early 1949 that they changed to black on the CJ3As. I'll have to see if I can find that date too when I get a chance.
 
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Originally posted by GaryArf GaryArf wrote:

The early style door hinge brackets may hold a clue to the date.

 Also what is the black bar that is next to the front seat (to the right) also between the cute little girl and the driver?
 
I looked closely at the black bar as well as the driver's seat. The black rod on the left side (driver's perspective) is not part of the front seat.  It is behind it.  Both black rods could be part of a rear seat or top bows, but they are behind the front seats, I believe.
 
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If you look real close you can see "Sheeler" on the steering wheel, just after the "Governors" thumb. Another observation is the vaccum hose is body color up to the thumb turn on the cowl-windshield pivot. 
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Originally posted by samcj2a samcj2a wrote:

I looked closely at the black bar as well as the driver's seat. The black rod on the left side (driver's perspective) is not part of the front seat.  It is behind it.  Both black rods could be part of a rear seat or top bows, but they are behind the front seats, I believe.
 
 
You don't believe the the black bar at the driver's left elbow is part of the front seat back?  To me it appears obvious that it is.  You can clearly see the upholstery attachment at the top of the bar and if you follow the bar down it lines up perfectly with the horizontal portion of the seat framing.  The confusing thing is that there is no upholstery wrapping around the seat back on the side.
 
It would be nice to compare this photo with a current one of a restored 2a taken at the exact same angle.  That might help answer some of these questions.
 
Now the black bar that is behind the little girl is really what I'm questioning here.  It's possible that it is a top bow since there is only one top bow fastened into the windshield brackets, or perhaps it is some device that is keeping the little girl from falling backwards, a seat extension of some sort?  That seems like a stretch to me though.  You can see the driver's arm coming around the girl's waist and holding her right hand.  I think it's more likely a top bow that was wedged next to the seat perhaps.
 
I have to say that that is one of the cutest little girls that I have ever seen.  I wonder what she looks like now?  If this photo was taken in 1950 then she'd be about 56 or so and probably still beautiful, if life treated her well.


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No, I saved and zoomed in on the photo and you can see that the bar to the left of the driver is not part of the driver's seat.  You can see the upholstery of the driver's seat screwed onto the seat, in front of, if you will, the bar in question.  Also, on the bar in question, you can see that fabric is wrapped around the top (horizontal) portion of the bar.  None of that would support its being part of the driver's seat.
 
Also, it looks as though Sean's site is down at the moment.  If anyone wants a copy of the photo emailed, PM me and I'll send it to you.


Edited by samcj2a - 24 Nov. 2006 at 10:07pm
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Originally posted by mccjdj mccjdj wrote:

This photo was listed on ebay, being sold as a pic of a New Ohio Gov in a New 1950 Jeep. I dont know if it sold or not, but it sure did offer a lot of great detail, much more that I thought at first. I guess it really helps to know your stuff. Thanks Guys.
 
Not completely on topic, but I like to research stuff and this is relevant because it helps us to more accurately date the photograph.
 
In my research I found that the 1950 date may not be completely correct.  If the man driving the jeep was celebrating a recent election win, or was in a parade while running for election, then it would have been the year 1946.  The man is Thomas J. Herbert who served as Ohio's governor from '47 to '49. 
 
 
According the the Ohio Historical society's website which was last updated in 1999, this man was still alive at 104 years of age.   I would consider it very unlikely that he is still with us at this point so I guess I'll forget about giving him a call to ask him if I can buy the jeep.  Wink
 
 


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Originally posted by samcj2a samcj2a wrote:

No, I saved and zoomed in on the photo and you can see that the bar to the left of the driver is not part of the driver's seat.  You can see the upholstery of the driver's seat screwed onto the seat, in front of, if you will, the bar in question.  Also, on the bar in question, you can see that fabric is wrapped around the top (horizontal) portion of the bar.  None of that would support its being part of the driver's seat.
 
Yep, you are right.  That bar is the back seat frame with the screws along the top holding the upholstery.  You can also see the reflection of the frame on the top of the wheel well.  It looks very much like mine at that angle and the seat construction is exactly the same.  The depth of focus is what threw me off and it might account for the other black bar that is between the girl and the governor. 
 
Something I can't figure out yet is the black rounded object that is on the windshield frame just to the rear of the inner windshield latch.  It looks like it might be part of the one top bow that is there.  Any ideas?


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