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Topic ClosedCARB ISSUES? Ask scoutpilot.

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scoutpilot View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2014 at 10:24am
Hey Richard. Most WO throttle shafts are nickel-plated brass. Steel began its use in '49. The correct shaft OD is .3125". I use brass in my shafts. The throttle itself should have an ID of .3125" Bushings come in two styles. Brass press-in inserts which require machine-shop precision reaming to 3/8" and setting as well as nylon strips installed as wrap-arounds on the shaft. I prefer the brass for the shafts and use the nylon for loose throttle lever pins. Some old-school carb mechs would braze the two pieces together as a last resort. If you are going to do this yourself, use caution in choosing your source for the brass. Highest quality you can find is the key. Bushings are about $1 apiece through a number of sources.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2014 at 6:55pm
Scoutpilot thank you for your reply schouldn't there be a little clearance between the .3125 O.D. and the .3125 I.D. also what type of nylon do you use. I don't understand the nylon strips as wrap-arounds on the shaft.Wouldn't it be just a nylon bushing? instead of brass?
   Richard
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2014 at 7:25pm
ID vs OD is not as exactly the same as you might think. The fit is that precise so that a vacuum leak cannot occur along the length of the shaft where it passes through the throttle. 
I don't recommend the nylon for a WO. They're primarily for WCFB and AFB carbs with multiple throttles. As I say, I use them as bushing material in the linkage itself. 
The brass bushing is designed and formed with longitudinal ribs which allow it to grip and seal inside the reamed opening. They are typically installed in a press because of the tight fit. Nylon does not seal as well, nor does it stand up to the significant non-axial forces imposed on a single shaft supported only by the part it runs through. 
This is why bushings are required in the first place. The forces exerted by the accelerator linkage cause the shaft to be pulled in a rearward direction on the linkage side and pushed in a forward direction on the opposite side. This in turn causes both the shaft and throttle to wear in an oblong or egg shape.  Nylon would wear too quickly.
Hope this helps.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2014 at 7:52pm
Scoutpilot, this helps a lot. Thank you so much for your expertise.
   Richard
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2014 at 8:14pm
Hello scout pilot,

I am a long-time reader and first-time poster. I bought a '48 CJ2a three years ago. At that time the Carter WO Carb was leaking onto the exhaust manifold so I had it rebuilt as I prefer to have fires inside of a firepit. It worked wonderfully for about a year. Now the jeep will stall out after being driven down the road and being warmed up. It will idle all day if I don't throttle up. I have read all of the previous posts in this thread and can not find a similar problem/solution.   Suggestions are appreciated.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2014 at 8:56pm
Absent any other issues you may or may not have noticed, and absent any adjustments to timing, air flow, mixture or RPM, I think you have a problem with the accelerator pump. It may have become contaminated by water or bad gas and is seizing in the column. On the other hand, your fuel pump could be going south on you or you may have a blockage in the fuel line. Are you running a filter between the tank and pump, and/or the pump and the carb? A dirty filter may allow enough fuel flow for idle but cause starvation due to restriction upon acceleration. 
Another possible issue is a distributor that is not allowing the timing to advance with acceleration.
Hope this helps. If you can think of any other symptoms you may have noticed and discounted, please advise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2014 at 9:24pm
Hey scoutpilot,

Took the Jeep up to the local oldtimer mechanic to double check the coil, fuel filter, dwell, fuel pump. He says he is sure it is a carb. issue. I took the carb off and blew air up through the bottom out the top and dumped out whatever liquids were present. I reinstalled it and have the same problem. What other screws do I need to remove to blow air through? Should I get a rebuild kit and replace the seals after removing the screws or will taking out the screws and reinstalling them be ok?

Thanks,
John
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2014 at 9:37pm
If the seals and gaskets have been in the carb more than a few months, it would be a good idea to have spares on hand to replace them. I recommend you get a good kit as, if my suspicion is correct, the accelerator pump is no longer any good and cannot be saved. Simply removing screws and caps and blowing air through the passages you can reach will not solve your issue. A thorough cleaning is called for if the carb has not been serviced in a number of years. This requires complete disassembly and an overnight soak in carb cleaner for all parts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug. 2014 at 3:17pm
I purchased a Master rebuild kit from Peter DeBella. Do you know if that kit comes with the metering rod adjustment tool?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug. 2014 at 5:22pm
No sir. Sorry, it doesn't. I do know that Carl Walck sells the gauge. Check with him. Or, be patient. Someone else here may have one they can send to you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2014 at 3:55pm
All right. For those of you who are inclined to the DIY side, I have made this little video about setting the WO Metering Rod.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug. 2014 at 12:46am
Thank you for your help and for posting the Metering Rod video.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2014 at 6:21pm
My carb finally gave it up yesterday. It's running way too rich no matter what I do.
 
I took a look down the throat while it was running, and I'm seeing gas drooling out of the accelerator pump discharge nozzle. I would assume that this isn't correct?
 
I pulled the carb apart, dipped it for an hour or so, and inspected everything. It all looks good except for  a few pieces.
 
First, the leather on the accelerator pump is uneven around the edges. I don't know how long the leather cup should be, but it doesn't even cover the spring most of the way around. Seems to me it worn out.  
 
Second, there's a brass 'jet' with a very mangled top. If you're standing on the driver's side of the jeep facing the carb, the jet in question is the one at the 8:00 position.  I can't imagine that this helps at all, but how much will it impact how the carb runs? The top of the jet has had about 50-60% of the area beside the screwdriver slot twisted out.
 
Lastly, there is a slight bit of lateral play in the throttle shaft. Maybe .002 - .003 or so. Spraying propane or soapy water at it doesn't seem to change how the motor run, so I'm not sure that it's a major vacuum leak.
 
Anyway, the carb's symptoms are that it idles mostly OK, except that I have to run it pretty lean on the screw (1/2 to 3/4 turn) to compensate for the dripping accelerator pump. Running down the road, it smells distinctly rich, and has an erratic misfire in situations that bring the vacuum up, like trying to accelerate or hill climbing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2014 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by LesBerg LesBerg wrote:

My carb finally gave it up yesterday. It's running way too rich no matter what I do.
 
I took a look down the throat while it was running, and I'm seeing gas drooling out of the accelerator pump discharge nozzle. I would assume that this isn't correct?
Your assumption is correct. The carb is over pressurized and fuel is being forced through it
 
I pulled the carb apart, dipped it for an hour or so, and inspected everything. It all looks good except for  a few pieces.
 
First, the leather on the accelerator pump is uneven around the edges. I don't know how long the leather cup should be, but it doesn't even cover the spring most of the way around. Seems to me it worn out. 
Yes, I would say it is shot. 
 
Second, there's a brass 'jet' with a very mangled top. If you're standing on the driver's side of the jeep facing the carb, the jet in question is the one at the 8:00 position.  I can't imagine that this helps at all, but how much will it impact how the carb runs? The top of the jet has had about 50-60% of the area beside the screwdriver slot twisted out.

 Not good. That is the Low Speed Idle Jet. 

Lastly, there is a slight bit of lateral play in the throttle shaft. Maybe .002 - .003 or so. Spraying propane or soapy water at it doesn't seem to change how the motor run, so I'm not sure that it's a major vacuum leak.

That doesn't seem like a lot, but falls into a dangerous area. You need to remove the throttle shaft and mic it. Optimum is .3125" OD.  .309" is worn out.Then mic the throttle itself where the shaft passes through. It too should be optimally .3125" ID. If you will recall, throttle shafts and the throttle itself don't wear evenly around. They wear into an egg shape. When that happens, it's time for bushings, installed with great care and precision and a good used, or new shaft.
 
Anyway, the carb's symptoms are that it idles mostly OK, except that I have to run it pretty lean on the screw (1/2 to 3/4 turn) to compensate for the dripping accelerator pump. Running down the road, it smells distinctly rich, and has an erratic misfire in situations that bring the vacuum up, like trying to accelerate or hill climbing.

Again, that sounds like the accelerator pump is failing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2014 at 9:04pm
Scoutpilot, the hot rod shop is telling me the cross shaft linkage is loose And allowing air to by pass causing hard idle.   We spray carb spray in the linkage shaft and she idles higher. Is there away to fix the looseness of the linkage? I'm being told possible the bearings or seals on it? But that it requires a special tool?   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2014 at 9:17pm
It's not a problem with the linkage. The problem is the shaft and throttle base are worn beyond tolerance. As I just told Lesberg, the throttle shaft should be perfectly round and the passages it fits through need to be perfectly round. The shaft, when new is .3125"OD. The passages, when new are .3125"ID. After 65+ years the two have worn into an egg shape, allowing air to get by, causing a vacuum leak which is odds-on your idle issue. The throttle needs bushings and the shaft needs to be replaced. A competent technician can bore, ream and seat the bushings. A good used shaft can be installed or a new one needs to be machined.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug. 2014 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by scoutpilot scoutpilot wrote:

<font face="Courier New, Courier, mono" size="3">It's not a problem with the linkage. The problem is the shaft and throttle base are worn beyond tolerance. As I just told Lesberg, the throttle shaft should be perfectly round and the passages it fits through need to be perfectly round. The shaft, when new is .3125"OD. The passages, when new are .3125"ID. After 65+ years the two have worn into an egg shape, allowing air to get by, causing a vacuum leak which is odds-on your idle issue. The throttle needs bushings and the shaft needs to be replaced. <font face="Courier New, Courier, mono" size="3">A competent technician can bore, ream and seat the bushings. A good used shaft can be installed or a new one needs to be machined.


Thank you for the reply, my fault for not reading the previous poster. Much apologies scoutpilot.   Would this problem also cause the mixture screw not to do anything? We turn in or out nothing changes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug. 2014 at 5:49pm
With a vacuum leak such as yours, more choke than necessary is used just to keep it idling. The spray applied to the leak momentarily seals the leak. With the choke closed you are running an excessively rich mixture to make up for the air intrusion at the leak. At some point, the idle mixture screw (brass) becomes unusable for idle mixture control.
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