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T-90 rebuilt but....

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cal.bar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 6:48am
Originally posted by Oilleaker1 Oilleaker1 wrote:

Hawky, when you jumped in, you stepped on my foot! Shocked You're a big help with the photos. Thanks buddy. 

Since you didn't replace the bushing in the flywheel, that pretty much rules out the bushing being too tight. 

Clutch adjustment with the right freeplay next. 

You say it did not jump out of 2nd for the 1st 300 miles. Now it does. Again, I'd pull the top off and take a good look at things. If it has worn in and end float is now the cause, you will need to take it out and fix it. It's hard to advise you much farther without seeing it in person and moving things. The fellows here, myself included, will be glad to try and help you, just ask. Oilly
 
UPDATE:  well, back to square one.  I tightened the clutch control cable.  Worked for 2 days and now back to the dragging clutch.  (I'll pull the top cover and take some video through the clutch observation door tomorrow).  STILL not stopping the gears when I push the clutch in.
 
As for the question on 2nd, no, it has ALWAYS popped right out of second.  From the day I got it.  And the day after I rebuilt the trans.  Can't seem to get it nailed down.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 6:52am
Originally posted by Oilleaker1 Oilleaker1 wrote:

Hawky, when you jumped in, you stepped on my foot! Shocked You're a big help with the photos. Thanks buddy. 

Since you didn't replace the bushing in the flywheel, that pretty much rules out the bushing being too tight. 

Clutch adjustment with the right freeplay next. 

You say it did not jump out of 2nd for the 1st 300 miles. Now it does. Again, I'd pull the top off and take a good look at things. If it has worn in and end float is now the cause, you will need to take it out and fix it. It's hard to advise you much farther without seeing it in person and moving things. The fellows here, myself included, will be glad to try and help you, just ask. Oilly
 
Thank you Hawk.  Great pics.  IF I have to pull the trans and do something with the clutch I'd like to hit you up for some more details and guidance on that procedure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bverboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 9:20am
my novak rebuild kit cured my second gear popping out and the tranny is much more quieter.... I guess I got lucky but I still have slow leaks here and there....  I can deal with that though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unkamonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 11:49am
It's interesting that a 2nd gear fix would make much of a difference in the noise level. It's usually the transfer case. Leaks, Meh, they do that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 7:03pm
UPDATE - I am trying to upload video (with no success), but I took off the top cover today and indeed the throw out bearing is not moving forward enough to fully disengage the pressure disk.  My clutch pedal has one inch of free travel and my clutch cable is about maxed out.
 
Not sure where/what else to adjust.
 
Odd that tightening the cable worked for a day or two, then stopped working.  What might this mean?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by cal.bar cal.bar wrote:


UPDATE - I am trying to upload video (with no success), but I took off the top cover today and indeed the throw out bearing is not moving forward enough to fully disengage the pressure disk.  My clutch pedal has one inch of free travel and my clutch cable is about maxed out.
 
Not sure where/what else to adjust.
 
Odd that tightening the cable worked for a day or two, then stopped working.  What might this mean?
 
Is your pivot shaft between the transfer case and the frame in good shape. Are the pivot points on the transfer case and the frame worn? Are the holes on the pivot shaft slotted out? Is the clutch fork inside the bell housing in good shape where the clutch cable attaches?

The clutch system on a 2A has many points of wear that can cause erratic behavior. Any wear on even one point can affect clutch operation.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 7:33pm
Videos of the issue
With the engine idling:
 
Stationary:
From these videos, can you tell if the TO bearing isn't moving forward enough, or is it the clutch itself that is allowing the drag?


Edited by cal.bar - 26 Mar. 2017 at 7:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A wrote:

Originally posted by cal.bar cal.bar wrote:


UPDATE - I am trying to upload video (with no success), but I took off the top cover today and indeed the throw out bearing is not moving forward enough to fully disengage the pressure disk.  My clutch pedal has one inch of free travel and my clutch cable is about maxed out.
 
Not sure where/what else to adjust.
 
Odd that tightening the cable worked for a day or two, then stopped working.  What might this mean?
 
Is your pivot shaft between the transfer case and the frame in good shape. Are the pivot points on the transfer case and the frame worn? Are the holes on the pivot shaft slotted out? Is the clutch fork inside the bell housing in good shape where the clutch cable attaches?

The clutch system on a 2A has many points of wear that can cause erratic behavior. Any wear on even one point can affect clutch operation.
 
Great questions.  I didn't notice anything at the time of the rebuild.  However, to definitively answer your questions would require me to completely take everything apart.  And at that point, I may as well rebuild the clutch and all anyway.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 9:53pm
The throw-out bearing travel doesn't look that bad to me. Do you have the proper dowel bolts connecting the lower engine flanges to the bell housing? Without them, one good pothole can cause bushing alignment issues, thus a dragging clutch.



Easily identifiable by the recess below the hex head...

1- 1946 CJ2A   
2- 1949 CJ3A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaksjep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2017 at 6:22am
One thing I would be very concerned about regarding the 2nd gear popping out issue is when you are off roading and are using 2nd gear for compression braking such as going downhill.  From personal experience, going down a steep hill and your transmission "pops" out of 2nd into neutral, my first words were, sh*t...sh*t...sh*t... as I tried to get control using the brakes and get it back into gear so I could continue down the hill safely.

Fix your 2nd gear sooner than later.
My posts are my personal opinion and are not legal advice as I am not an attorney. If you act on any of my comments you do so at your own risk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2017 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by jaksjep jaksjep wrote:

One thing I would be very concerned about regarding the 2nd gear popping out issue is when you are off roading and are using 2nd gear for compression braking such as going downhill.  From personal experience, going down a steep hill and your transmission "pops" out of 2nd into neutral, my first words were, sh*t...sh*t...sh*t... as I tried to get control using the brakes and get it back into gear so I could continue down the hill safely.

Fix your 2nd gear sooner than later.
 
Quite true. But since I know 2nd will pop out, I don't use it for braking. (upgraded to 11" drums for that)
But, until I figure out the CLUTCH, it isn't going anywhere.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 4:07am
OK - update.  I finally got it all back together today.  And... putting in the shim and reducing the end play to .015 did the trick.  No more slipping out of 2nd!  Of course, it goes without saying that I COULD NOT have done all of this without all generosity of wisdom available on this board.  I cannot thank everyone enough.  As I learn, I will continue to post and try to help those who come after me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 3:49pm
Glad you got the problem figured out. Now, go out and enjoy the drive...
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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