Top Bows & Doors |
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trader_reed
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2005 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2201 |
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Jeff,
What ever measurements I gave you where from clean (bead blasted) original bows. My originals are stepped not a continuous taper. Anyway, I've still not painted my jpet bows and have started to get a little light surface rust . I was going to sand the crap out of the ends, inside and out before I paint them. I unlike some of the 'old timers' have a little more patience.
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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The point that I was trying to make is that your original bows have the same diameter for 2 to 3 inches. So do Roger's for the most part. They are not a continuous taper from .875 to .840 |
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sean
Moderator Group Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: North Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7388 |
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Jeff:
Sorry, I missed your earlier question about measuring taper. Got lost in the shuffle of multiple post. I gotta get an early start out of town until tomorrow afternoon, but will get better dimensions then. I did initially check diameters at approx. 1" intervals, just to confirm a taper, but did not record the intermediate measurements. I suspect you'll find a lot of variation between bows. These were likely a loose manufacturing tolerance. Sean |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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That's OK Sean, I can't believe you keep up with the posts that you do! I guess they don't have a phone booth that you can jump into and change clothes where your going
Here is a picture of the finished windshield storage clamp:
The next time I do these, I will probably cut them to length, put the radii on the ends, drill the hole and then use an alignment pin in the jig to hold them in place before I crush them. i think that will save time.
Edit: Where are you guys getting these fancy emoticons that are not in the regular menu? Edited by jpet - 05 Sep. 2008 at 2:47am |
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bkreutz
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 17 Oct. 2006 Location: Fruitland Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7037 |
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jpet,
I was afraid to ask about the fancy emoticons, figured if I found out I'd have waaaay too much fun with them. |
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Roger B
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 30 Nov. 2007 Location: Trosa, SWEDEN Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Jeff,
My bows was measured with the original paint/rust on them.
Roger B
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1946 CJ2A Serial # 22728 Harvest Tan in parts
1947 CJ2A Serial #101548 Luzon Red Only 16000 km 1947? Bantam T3-C Serial # 20006 |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Roger, True, and that is what i want to know the size of the finished bow. There is a portion of taper that is a land for 2 inches on your bow. I'm trying to determine whether or not the taper looks something more like this.
You have told me that the tube thickness on your upright is .075-.076 and that the end of your center bow is .838-.840. The taper can't be continuous because if it was it would look like this:
The taper would have to be 10-1/2 inches long to go from 7/8 to .840 continually. Granted that on Sean's upright he has a chamfer at the beginning that is a .06 wall thickness at the beginning and ends up at .075 in 1/4 inch. Well, the bows would insert into his 1/4" deeper. He is the only one who has reported this chamfer.
As i said earlier, 15ga is not available in electric weld. If you go to 14ga, the problem becomes worse. 14ga is .080-.082 wall thickness.
Here is a picture from a friend showing that his bow has a .06 wall thickness.
16ga is not a problem because its inside diameter is 7/8" You only need the taper to allow for the paint. I think we have determined that a continuous taper from .840 to .875 over a 4" distance works. with 16ga uprights.
This is the only example we have thus far of an upright bow that is 16ga. This is 2 or 3 generation. (note punch tab)
Both Sean's & Roger's bows are the only examples of 1st generation bows (rivets). They both are .075-.076 thick. Edited by jpet - 05 Sep. 2008 at 2:50am |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Here are some pics of the tube spacer using the new 5/8"dia 14ga tubing:
Still a little dimple but not much.
Sorry ladies.... this one is mine! I'm getting my new bikini top from Cape Cod Canvas and with any luck this weekend, I'll have my own set of bows. The spoils of having a running jeep.
Roger,
What do you think?
Edited by jpet - 05 Sep. 2008 at 2:58am |
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48cj2a
Bantam Trailer Moderator Sponsor Member Joined: 22 July 2005 Location: Central, IL Status: Offline Points: 4523 |
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Jeff,
Question is will I get bows and tube spacers before the top or the top before the tubes and bows.
No pressure
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Art C USAF (Retired)
47 CJ2A #134955 Project 48 CJ2A #206759 62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900 45 T3-C #191 Project http://www.bantamt3c.com http://www.48cj2a.com |
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trader_reed
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2005 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2201 |
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Well the top was going to ship tomorrow, but seeing your bows aren't ready I may as well just hold it for you till jpet finishes you bows
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Art,
Question is: punch tabs or rivets? We also need to discuss the special pieces you need for the rear. Everyone else: If you are on "A" list, and you have a running jeep, and you need your bows, PM me. I should get your bows done this weekend. Also let me know if you want punch tabs or rivets. The punch tabs may take some time. I have to rework my fixture to make setup more efficient. Edited by jpet - 23 July 2008 at 12:39pm |
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Roger B
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 30 Nov. 2007 Location: Trosa, SWEDEN Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Jeff,
The new bow spacer looks exact as my original, with the little dimple.
Perfect!!
Roger B
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1946 CJ2A Serial # 22728 Harvest Tan in parts
1947 CJ2A Serial #101548 Luzon Red Only 16000 km 1947? Bantam T3-C Serial # 20006 |
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sean
Moderator Group Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: North Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7388 |
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Jeff:
All 4 ends, across both the horizontal & vertical sections. Also at the approx. 2.75" insertion depth. I hope the table displays correctly:
I can't get a horizontal at the very end, since the notches remove a large part of the arc. Assume the same as vertical diameter. From a couple of quick mock-ups in CAD, they're all w/in a few thousandths of linear taper. Course, all measurements taken thru remaining original paint, & rust. The "easy fitting" ends look pretty much the same. Top view: Side view: The "tight fitting" end is missing almost all the paint. Sean |
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Jus*Jack
Member Joined: 15 Mar. 2007 Location: so. Georgia Status: Offline Points: 1841 |
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Well, based on those dimensions, as compared to the ones from mine, I can certainly understand why I had such difficulty in assembling them! <g> Look at the difference between Sean's dimensions at 2.75" and mine, even at 2.5", not to mention at the 3" mark.
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Seeya!
<Jack> '48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug" '48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Sean's uprights ar .076 wall. Your's are .06 wall "apples & oranges remember?" Edited by jpet - 24 July 2008 at 4:30am |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Well, It looks like Sean DOES have a linear taper on the end of his bows for the most part. Here is what does not make sense: The white lines are the center bow taper. The cyan lines are the upright tubing wall. As you can see, the tubing has a 1" OD, a .75 wall thickness and a .06 wall thicknes at the very beginning which graduates to .75 in 1/4 inch distance. The inner diameter of the upright tube for the most part is .850. This means that the two pieces should make contact at the .850 mark.
I drew the taper as a linear taper from .830 to .880 over 4 inches. Pretty close to Sean's earlier table. I also measured the taper at 1" increments. As Sean said, The taper is close to linear. By my calculation, the taper will only fit in 2-5/16 deep before contact. The rivet is 2-3/4 from the edge of the pipe and the notch in the center bow is 7/16-1/2 inch deep so the pipe is suposed to insert in almost, if not 3 inches. Something don't add up. Matt, Roger, and Steve (original bows mix of 1st & second gen) all have a .850 inside diameter with no .880 over 1/4" lead in. This taper would only fit 2-1/16 deep on their uprights. Obviously Sean's taper is what he has posted, so now I question the condition of the inner diameter of the upright bow. In order for this taper to insert into the upright bow 3" deep, the inside diameter of the upright would have to be .682 which is .069 wall thickness. In "Top Bows" Sean stated that his bows did make contact at the .860 mark
There has to be some relief somewhere in the upright or this could not occur. I realize, Sean, that it would be near impossible to measure the inside of your upright bow like you did the outside of your taper (without hole gauges). I'm just saying that something does not add up. This problem will magnify with 14ga tubing because it is .080-.082 wall thickness. OK Doors. Here is a picture of a 1st generation door. Notice the lower hinge pin Let's look closer: Well would ya look at that. I see a zipper! As you can see by the condition of the canvas and window this canvas certainly appears original. We've discovered either one of three things: 1. Either some first generation doors had zippers
2. We have found the oldest repo canvas know to man
3. Jeff does not know what he's talking about and needs to do some more research. Edit:
I should note that Sean also said on page 27 of "Top Bows" that The outside diameters of his upright tubes ranged anywhere from .999 to 1.010 with a maximum of 1.011. I assume he means that they are "egg-shapped" that much and not that some are 1.01 and some are .999 which may also mean that when round they would have an OD somewhere around 1.005. None the less, if all 4 uprights had a concentric 1.01" outside diameter with .075 wall thickness and the 1/4" lead-in taper, the center bow would insert to a depth of 3.116 which is more like what we are looking for. That is still a problem for me because I can't get material that is 1.01 diameter. The stuff I have got has been probaby been within .001 of 1" dia. Edited by jpet - 05 Sep. 2008 at 2:56am |
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trader_reed
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2005 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2201 |
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Looks like that door had a window replacement! but the zipper looks stock
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Matt, How can you tell? |
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