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John Cotner View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Nov. 2014 at 9:30pm
I am planning on welding some small repair pieces on various holes in body panels, and took some measurements to determine the thickness of metal to buy.  What I found is the thickness of the metal on the body is less than the 18 gauge (.049") which I understand it should be.  Are there 20 gauge sections on the body, or is the metal on mine worn that thin?  Are there 18 and 20 gauge parts on the body?
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John Cotner
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bretto View Drop Down
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I've always heard it to be 18.  I don't know what the tolerances were.  When I redid my floors, I did them in 16 along with the hats but did 18 on the body fixes. 
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John Cotner View Drop Down
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Thanks for the info.  My floors are mostly air so I checked a fairly intact fender.
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John Cotner
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athawk11 View Drop Down
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When I measure the steel thickness on numerous tubs and in numerous locations, I find the steel to be thicker than 18 gauge, but thinner than 16 gauge.

I believe it was Jpet that made an interesting comment about steel thickness. I can't remember the details, but I believe that, back in the 40s, steel thickness was measured and sold in a different measurement format than "gauge".

My personal choice...I use 16 gauge for all my tub repairs. It's much easier to work with.

Tim
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Originally posted by athawk11 athawk11 wrote:

....I believe it was Jpet that made an interesting comment about steel thickness....
I had a theory that 18 ga sheet metal was closer to .055 thick in the 40s and that 16 ga sheet was .065 thick.  I'm not sure about that anymore but this is what I have observed:

I have seen some original Willys drawings (thanks to a friend), where the material called out for various body panels is HR steel P&O (hot roll pickle and oil)  If the engineer called out a particular gauge of material, he would also specify the thickness.  i.e:

MATERIAL - #24 (.0239) U.S.S. GA. H.R. STEEL A.I.S.I. C-1012 - P.&.O.
MATERIAL - #16 (.0598) U.S.S. GA. H.R. STEEL A.I.S.I. C-1012 - P.&.O.
MATERIAL - #13 (.0897) U.S.S. GA. H.R. STEEL A.I.S.I. C-1012 - P.&.O.

I have not seen any side panel or floor drawings so I don't know what size material material is called out and I have not seen any drawings where 18 gauge is called out or where 18 gauge is referred to as .0478 thick but since the call outs for 13, 16, and 24 gauge are correct to the US standard I would not doubt that 18 gauge is called out as .0478 as specified by the US standard for HR steel.  Where I work, we buy sheet metal of various thickness and their sizes match the AISI standard.  18 gauge is consistently .049 .048, 16 gauge is consistently .059

... but what is the reality?  When I measured the sheet metal in my MB body, I came up with a pretty consistent thickness of .055.  After reading this thread last night, I put a calipers on the edge of the wheel well vertical panel on GW and I measure the thickness to be .055  This measurement is closer to 17 gauge which I don't think is available in HR P&O; at least it is not common.  Again, I have not seen a drawing so I don't know what was called out.  I have read both here and on the g503 that it was specified as 18 gauge but I can't validate that.  I have seen a drawing for the rear bow socket and the drawing says the material is 13 gauge (.0897).  I measured GW's sockets and they are in fact .090 thick.  I have not seen a drawing of the dash board but I measured the bottom lip of GW's and I get .067...... which would be 15 gauge and is not a normal HR sheet metal thickness Confused.

.... so what have we learned? ...... that I don't have a clue

... I think this is a topic worth deep investigation.


Edited by jpet - 06 Nov. 2014 at 6:53pm
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John Cotner View Drop Down
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I think the answer is to find the closest thing to whatever measurement I get from a specific area needing repair and go with that gauge of metal. 
Thanks,
John Cotner
New Ulm, Minnesota
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Originally posted by John Cotner John Cotner wrote:

I think the answer is to find the closest thing to whatever measurement I get from a specific area needing repair and go with that gauge of metal. 
Yes, that is the answer to your situation, but either in this thread or another, I hope we can continue the discussion.  I'd like to hear what others have found their sheet metal thickness to be.
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Good answer since the gauge of plate steel has quite a bit of tolerance. An 18 gauge US standard is .0478 but it has a min of .0438 and a max of .0518.   The steel mills of today can keep a closer tolerance than the years of the past.

     Jim
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Originally posted by WeeWilly WeeWilly wrote:

....  but it has a min of .0438 ...
 For hot roll?  Where is this data coming from?  Nevermind I agree it may vary slightly ... but .055 is all the way into the center of 15 gauge.   wierd.



Edited by jpet - 06 Nov. 2014 at 7:00pm
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.... hmmm

I see on Benjamin steel's web site they have a wide tolerance for HR P & O:


Perhaps this is why Willys specified a decimal value on the print as well as a gauge.  I know at our company that if we ordered 18 gauge and we got material that was .0438 thick, we would reject it.
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Its' a little less than .052 (.0518) for max and a little less than .044 (.0438) for the min so it is only .008 difference. I googled plate steel tolerance.  I knew there was a tolerance be caused we used to check the beginning of a coil of steel after it was rolled and at the end of each coil when I worked in Weirton Steel I just don't remember the tolerances.

   Jim
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Thanks Jim.  Even though that is the tolerance, I have never seen that much variation.  Have you?

For restoration purpose, I guess it does not matter.  It is what it is and you just have to find the closest metal to size as we have discussed above, but for research purposes, I would be curious to know what Willys called out for on the side panels and floor.  I know I've read that it is 18 gauge all over the forums and the reproduction panels we buy are made of 18 gauge, but I've never seen a Willys document to substantiate.  For certain .055 is out of tolerance for 18 gauge.

The only reason, I'm chasing a rabbit here is because I think John's questions have been answered.  If this is a hijack, please advise and I will back off

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Jeff I don't think of it as high jacking at all since we re all here to learn as much as we can about our hobby and the original post referring to finding metal in his jeep thinner than ".049".
  I really don't know how their metal varied back in the 40s but today I doubt it would vary + or - .002. for plate type steel.  The last 18 gauge I bought a few years ago (2000 lbs) is .046.
  The metal in my 47 was at .050 except the cowl side panels with the side steps which if I remember right was around 16 gauge. My floor was .050 and I measured it at the clutch and brake peddle holes.
 
   I also thought this was interesting that the gauge of metal is based on its' weight per square foot.
  
     Jim
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