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Timing default, backfire won't run?!

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Tizzyusmc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tizzyusmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Timing default, backfire won't run?!
    Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 4:54am
Per the manual we set timming to correct points as well as made sure our pump was installed correctly. She wants to fire but we are only getting backfires no actual running. We are so lost we have been both directions with distbuter...advancing to no back fire then retarding to back firing. We have done as everyone has suggested moving wires but nothing. We go back to per manual install and get back firing. Rotor shows IO at cyl 1 comp and doing 2 full turns we result in IGN. Per manual this is correct. But yet will not run....any suggestions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote first46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 5:28am
Sounds although the valves are sticking.
Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tizzyusmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 6:31am
What's is the corrective action for this, if that's the case?   Please speak slowly and loudly in to the mic....so I can understand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 8:04am
You haven't stripped a fibre cam gear by any chance?? Just take off the tappet side cover and spin the motor over to see if the valves in number 4 cylinder are on rock-over when the number 1 piston is at TDC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoutpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 10:51am
You indicated that when "IGNITION" appears in the window, the rotor is pointing to 5:00 O'clock. That should be the #1 position. Your wires are installed in the cap, counting counterclockwise...Trust me...I'm not doubting you...just slowly and carefully put your hand on #1 and trace it to the plug. Do the same for the others, moving counter clockwise around the cap. 1 - 3 - 4 - 2. Everyone around here has had to do it this way at one time or another.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 11:17am
A rather crude but effective way to sort out timing issues is to simply take out spark plug number 1. Then put finger on hole and turn the pulley till proper compression is felt and then stop when no more. Timing marks should line up. Also the points should just be opening and rotor should be close to number one terminal in the dizzy. Then simply put on leads in the usual 1 3 4 2 to suit. Note flywheel can be installed 180* out this should remedy this.     This is the starting point providing nothing unusual is going on. A compression test would eliminate valves. Simple observation mostly everything else. Please note. I do not recommend putting anything down the spark plug hole to find tdc. Bound to end badly.

Edited by micjen - 20 Aug. 2014 at 11:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 2:22pm
If using the rear timing hole in the motor plate, do not forget that the flywheel can be installed with the timing marks 180 degrees off!  You would have to then change your wires at the distributor to match this timing. Find # 1 at TDC and start # one wire where the rotor is pointing and do as  Scout said counterclockwise 1342. John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 3:31pm
I am guilty of this...and more times than I care to admit...but are your sure you are installing the spark wires in the counter clockwise order?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 4:41pm
Whenever I have a timing question or issue I go back to Sean's GEICO timing protocol found in the Tech - FACs section of this Tech Questions forum.





Edited by smfulle - 20 Aug. 2014 at 4:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micjen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug. 2014 at 10:31pm
One other possibility is the points are installed incorrectly (number 9 in below illustration) especially with the 2 piece type all insulating washers must be placed correctly including any through the dizzy housing or the condensor (number 6 in below illustration) is defective.

That problem with the insulating washer on 2 piece points I have come across and simply fixed it by putting another fibre washer to isolate the lead going into dizzy. (See 28 on the illustration below) Sometimes the earth lead (sometimes present but excellent idea to install if not) between plate and dizzy can be broken as well.

A defective condensor can cause one all mighty backfire. I had one backfiring every revolution even though it was running. Thought the leads were crossed at first.



Edited by micjen - 20 Aug. 2014 at 10:33pm
CJ2A rebuilder. Let the Willys Jeep live again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tizzyusmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug. 2014 at 4:55pm
We couldn't figure it out fellas...we dropped of off at shop in escondido, ca
Hot rods custom stuff. I'm extremely confident they will get us fixed up. They specialize in flat head and old v8's, plus they had a ton of really nice hot rods sitting there when I pulled up.    Check out thier website and tell me what you think.

http://www.hotrodscustomstuff.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoutpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug. 2014 at 4:57pm
You will report back to us as to what they find, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tizzyusmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug. 2014 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by scoutpilot scoutpilot wrote:

<font face="Courier New, Courier, mono" size="3">You will report back to us as to what they find, right?




Yes Sir, I did as you posted scoutpilot- still no running only back firing.

Richard from the shop called me earlier and let me know it'll be a few days. So ill keep y'all posted-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoutpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug. 2014 at 5:19pm
Like you, can't wait.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tizzyusmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2014 at 10:24pm
Pump indexed wrong and points in distributor were messed up.....guess the book we were using was not correct or we just messed it up. Either way the shop got it running today! Hopefully I can pick it up tomorrow guess my carb had issues too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoutpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2014 at 10:26pm
Good deal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woodshopguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug. 2014 at 3:11am
Can someone elaborate on this?? pump indexed wrong I understand . . . but doesn't the distributor only go into it one way? It would just mean that your #1 firing position is not stock . . . I am not doubting, just trying to understand so I can avoid the same mistake or at least learn better troubleshooting .. .  .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1955cj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug. 2014 at 4:29am
I think you are correct....with #1 piston at TDC, where ever the rotor points is number 1, and the firing order would then be counterclockwise from there...
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