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jpet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Top Bow Feedback
    Posted: 16 July 2008 at 10:37am
Here is a new thread to post pictures of your new bows and feedback. This way we can keep "Top bows and Doors" more technical and under 50 pages. We can also discuss shipping, lists & what-not until Mike gets his new site going.

I like seeing the pictures of the bows and hearing feedback.

Edit: Russ, Can you move this thread to Member created parts?

Edited by jpet - 16 July 2008 at 10:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jus*Jack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:04am
Welllllll...

I'll start it off by fussing at myself, I guess. I finally got my bows all painted, and gave 'em a couple of days to dry thoroughly, and since I now have my bikini top from Matt, I was anxious to get it all together, so last evening, I went out to put it all together.

I guess there's not enough tolerance for MY paint job in the slip-fit between the top center section and the uprights. Sigh.

I put one coat of Rustoleum primer on the bare metal, let it dry, and followed that with one coat of gloss black Rustoleum on that. Tried to put it together, and wound up taking the paint off all the way back to bare metal!

I also scraped the paint on the bottoms of the uprights, where they slip into the bow pockets, but I was expecting that.

So I guess the question is, has anybody else got a solution that would allow me to keep the metal protected? Were the originals scraped clean like that? And did they wind up rusting as a result? Maybe that's why they're so tough to find!

And BTW, the fit _before_ the paint job was superb!

Seeya!

<Jack>

'48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug"

'48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:09am
Jack,

The originals are scraped there too. If you want them to look original, they have to be scraped there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote F Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:11am
Try sanding with 80 grit on an orbital sander before priming, then baking the parts somehow after the paint job. i think your failure was more of a case of weak paint adhesion than the fit being too tight.
 
I used to bake my intake manifolds, and valve covers in an oven to really set the spray can paint I used.. and it reealy helped  a lot I can't rememberthe temperature and time anymore nor can I think of what you would use to put a whole top bow in.. Maybe set it on a gas grille and heat it up for a few minutes ...what you want to do is boil off any remaining solvents and heat the paint so it's drying cycle is complete.
If you haven't checked out the tech FAQ section, go to:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tech-faq_forum57.html
for a lot of great stuff you need to know!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:17am
I don't know....... There is only a couple thousands of clearance there without the paint. I know that Sean said that he has to twist his bows to get them to seat so I know originally it was supposed to be tight.

I may be silly, but I actually want mine to be scratched there for the authentic look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jus*Jack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:19am
Hmmm...maybe...if I put just a _small_ hole in the oven door...

Nawww...she'd probably notice...

But, that's an idea Bill. As I said, I did let the paint dry for a couple of days, and there ARE those who would say that I already live in an oven down here, but obviously, it wasn't enough to prevent the loss of adhesion.

Actually, I like Jeff's answer better, cuz it means that I did it right! <g>

But I think that I'm gonna re-think this, but I also wanted to raise a red flag early on, before everybody else runs into the problem! They can bake, or otherwise treat theirs beforehand, and maybe save themselves the problem. Maybe Mike's tried putting his together since he got 'em painted? Mike? (But don't rush it just because I'm asking! Let 'em cure first!



Edited by Jus*Jack - 16 July 2008 at 11:20am
Seeya!

<Jack>

'48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug"

'48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:29am
I still think that if you add a couple thousands to the OD of the part, it will be scraped off or it won't fit right. I could make a new swedged tool and mail it to you. If people want more taper, we could just mail the thing around the world to all the different customers. Of course you'll need to borrow a 20 ton press.

Edit: Actually, this was the kind of stuff I wanted to talk about in the technical thread.

Edited by jpet - 16 July 2008 at 11:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jus*Jack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:39am
HAHAHA! I can't stop laughing at THAT idea! Took me a couple of minutes to stop laughing so hard that I couldn't even type!

No. I don't think that's what I want to do, Jeff! <g> I can just picture it now...I'd wind up crushing the tube (and probably the press!) if I tried to do that! Besides, I think you're right about the correct size...I think it's more a matter of the right KIND of paint, and the right method of application...and maybe, in the long run, they WERE all scraped clean! As I said, maybe this explains why there are so few original bows still around!

Trust me...I'm MORE that happy with the bows themselves! Just looking for a better idea on how to paint them. (And now I wonder how badly powder-coating would be on there...with the tolerance that you used, it wouldn't have fit either, if I recall correctly, and you would have had a REALLY rough time getting that finish off of the metal! <g>)
Seeya!

<Jack>

'48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug"

'48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ovrlnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 11:56am
I have to admit I haven't followed the top bow discussion as I am nowhere near that stage. but have you considered having it finished with a black oxide? this process is inexpensive and adds no thickness. the only downside is the metal is still prone to rust in moist environments you would be wise to rub the parts periodically with mineral oil. Just a thought
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 12:02pm
We discussed black oxide in " Top Bows" do a search in the index and you can find out where. The index is on page 1 in the first post.

Let's move this discussion to "Top Bows & Doors" This is what I consider technical. This post is for:
"Oooh I got my bows today! Here are some pictures!"And:
"Can I get a set?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jus*Jack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 12:03pm
As a matter of fact, I _did_ dip them in phosphoric acid first, in an effort to "rustproof" the inside of the tubing. That adds a layer of what amounts to a "controlled rust", for lack of a better term, but I don't know just how deeply that actually penetrates into the steel itself. As I understand the process, it does go below the surface, but how much, and did I leave it in the bath long enough, etc.?

I've also considered something along the lines of what you're suggesting, with the mineral oil, except that I'm probably going to use "Top-Cote", which is used as both a rust preventative and lubricant on steel tool surfaces, such as table saws. The alternate might be Boeshield T-9, which does basically the same thing. It would allow me to simply overspray the scraped (bare) steel, and that would prevent it from rusting...I hope!

EDIT: Ok Jeff...if you think that's more appropriate. I just thought this was really "feedback". Your call.

Edited by Jus*Jack - 16 July 2008 at 12:04pm
Seeya!

<Jack>

'48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug"

'48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 12:16pm
Well it did start out as feedback but then I'd ballooned into technical. Its becoming information that someone may need to make their own bows.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 12:33pm
If it's scraping the paint off every time you put the bows together then wouldn't it be logical that it will also scrape off a light coat of rust that has formed on them during the storage of the bows? Seems to me a spraying of WD-40 and a weekly ritual of putting the bows together should give quite the authentic look for your set of bows.
 
If this isn't possible or necessary then a good coat of paint and strapping them to the bow brackets ought to give the pristine 'unused' look you are striving for.
 
In other words....I doubt Willys gave a rip whether you have paint on them or not (or where they rub on the body when stored, for that matter)
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 12:39pm
after i allowed mine to air dry for 3 days, i hung them from the rafters on rafter hooks, and noticed my gloves made "light scratch" marks as i handeled them, i was almost livid at myself, until i thought "you know, they are going to get scratched up"..even just riding in the side pockets...
45 #10163 ACM #188
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45 Bantam T3-C #799 ACM #155156 SOLD
46 Bantam T3-C #3443
46 Bantam T3-C #8117
67 Stevens M416 #14469 DOD: 9-67

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

I know that Sean said that he has to twist his bows to get them to seat so I know originally it was supposed to be tight.
To clarify,  I said only one of them is a tight fit that needs to be twisted in. The other 3 ends slide in w/out cajoling.  The first photo shows the reluctant end, clearly devoid of original paint.  The other ends still have most of the original paint:



Jack, did you do the phosphoric conversion on these?  That alone will add some thickness.  How much is impossible to say, since it depends on solution strength, and how thick you put it on, how long you left it on, etc.  Could well have added up to more than .001, which would have increased ODs by .002+, and decreased ID's by the same amount.

Might have to sand the phosphoric coating off a bit to allow for paint thickness.

Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jus*Jack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 1:27pm
Low...I know that you're right about the scratches...but durn...I just HATE to have my brand-new bows gettin' all beat up!

Sean: You're probably right. I had wondered about the same thing. I followed Ospho's directions, and let them sit in solution (straight from the bottle) for half an hour. And incidentally, since I dipped them INto the solution, that means that the ID was also probably reduced by the same (unknown) amount!

For the moment, I have simply scraped/sanded the ends clean, so that I could try my new bikini top from Matt, and here's what the whole thing looks like:

New bows and bikini top

(Last 4 are with the paint on the bows.)

Ain't it beautiful?!?!?! <g>


My next step will be to go back and sand the ends down a bit, and mist on a couple of very light coats of paint, OR spray it with the Top Cote that I mentioned earlier.




Edited by Jus*Jack - 16 July 2008 at 1:29pm
Seeya!

<Jack>

'48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug"

'48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 4:38pm
Nice looking Jack, the white looks better than I imagined it in my "minds eye". Wonder how long it will be before it turns "pink" from the red dust?LOL (28 years and I still remember that stuff from my off road adventures down there, or don't you have the red stuff in southern GA?) It is a nice look with the blue.
Gale

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 4:43pm
Jack,

That site is asking me for a password.
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