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Tub with NO ACM |
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athawk11 
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Joined: 18 Jan. 2012 Location: Arvada,Colorado Status: Offline Points: 4151 |
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 Topic: Tub with NO ACMPosted: 24 June 2013 at 5:37pm |
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Searching the FAQ and Research and History page, I've tried to find a definitive point where the ACM numbers disappear on a 2A tub.
I think I found a span in serial numbers...176589-195769 where ACMs may have gone away, but I'm not sure if this information is still accurate.
I have a 2A tub with no ACM. I'm trying to date it. This tub was originally Patomac Grey if that helps at all.
Tim
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samcj2a
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Posted: 24 June 2013 at 6:42pm |
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Tim, think that this post by Sean in the Tech - FAQ is the best information we have:
CJ-2A Serial Numbers & Locations The other place to look is for the information in the CJ-2A Data Page database. Because the tubs were not necessarily used in the seuqence they were made, there will be some exceptions and outliers, I think. |
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Dirtmonkey
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Posted: 24 June 2013 at 7:51pm |
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Well, I can tell you that #188461 which is a 1948 does not have them.
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Current: '48 CJ2A #188461, '97 Jeep TJ, 2010 JK Unlimited (wife's), and a '97 Jeep Cherokee
Sold: '71 CJ5, '61 Willys Wagon |
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Jim Kilbourne
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Posted: 24 June 2013 at 7:56pm |
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the ACM/body number dropping/moving to a tag in 1948 is related to Willys buying the tooling and machinery, lock, stock and barrel, from ACM and shipping it all to Toledo so they could make bodies in house.
the company reports from the period should date the event as they discuss the purchase and when body operations came on line in Toledo...
Edited by Jim Kilbourne - 24 June 2013 at 7:58pm |
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Jim Kilbourne
1945 Willys, CJ2A-10142 1946 Willys, CJ2A-26592(for sale) 1946 Willys, CJ2A-33725 projectrequest@motorhousellc.com http://motorhousellc.com |
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athawk11
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Posted: 24 June 2013 at 9:05pm |
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Thank you Sam. I did study these pages, but found it odd that some tubs from late 1948 still ended up having the ACMs. Perhaps the…Willys occasionally sent body tubs “out of house”… is the answer to the few late ’48 tubs with ACMs?? Until I started messing with this tub, I was under the assumption that all 2A tubs had ACM numbers. When I didn’t find one, my research began. I knew about the ‘in house’ move by WO to make their tubs, and the move from American Central Manufacturing. I just thought this happened at the very beginning of 3A production. I didn’t think Willys Overland made any 2A tubs. I’m guessing there is no “WO Memo” that states the elimination of the stamped tub and tailgate during 2A production?
Thank you to all that replied.
Tim
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Lee MN
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Posted: 24 June 2013 at 10:57pm |
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Tim, do you have the front passenger fender and the frame that was with the tub?
Lee |
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LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys 49 2A “If you wait, you only get older” 67 M715 American Made Rolling History |
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athawk11
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Posted: 24 June 2013 at 11:37pm |
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Lee,
I'm sorry, I don't. I just have the tub. It is a donor for a 3A project. It will 'contribute' the cowl, dash, firewall, tranny hump, passenger side rear quarter area, and finally, a driver side wheel well to help a '49 3A survive.
Again, my main goal was to understand and learn more about these little wonders. No ACM is much more 3A ish anyway. It might confuse the next owner if it had one.
 Tim
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Bob W
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Posted: 25 June 2013 at 2:08am |
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It makes good sense that non-ACM number stamped body tubs were made by Willys..... but the dates just don't add up. American Central must have made some tubs without number stampings.
The highest ACM number I have seen is 173379. The CJ-2A Data Page generally agrees with the ACM numbers ending about there. These CJ-2As would have been manufactured during about April 1948 if you consider all the other data available from surviving vehicle date codes and published service information. American Central discontinued making Willys body tubs in October of 1948 and Willys began making them in December of 1948. This can be verified by reading the documents posted here.. http://www.cj3a.info/cj3a/body/change.html These dates indicate that some 1949 model year CJ-2As and all CJ-3A body tubs were made by Willys. Fred Coldwell stated in his PPCJ book that CJ-2As without the trailer socket hole were made by Willys. That change correctly fits into the documented dates. |
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ericw
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Posted: 25 June 2013 at 3:11am |
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My 1948 CJ2a has ACM #171327, is a lefty and has no sign of a trailer socket hole. Unfortunately, the firewall tags were removed some time ago to utilize the firewall space. Engine #J197784. I will look and see if maybe the trailer socket hole has been covered over.
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Eric
1948 CJ2a 'Angus' Body ACM# 171327 Member IAFFC |
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athawk11
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Posted: 25 June 2013 at 4:15am |
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Bob,
Thanks you. This information is interesting. Give or take a week or two, American Central was probably making tubs for about 6 months with no ACM numbers.
Do you think American Central knew of the pending discontinuation of the WO contract to build the tubs? Thus they saw no need, or desire for the ACM numbers during the final months of tub production?
By the way, this tub had no trailer socket hole. That would seem to indicate that this tub is a Willys tub.
Eric, how's that little lefty doing?
Tim
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Lee MN
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Posted: 25 June 2013 at 9:42pm |
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FWIW, my 49 has no ACM#, has the trailer socket hole, S/N 224xxx, unmolested 3rd owner Jeep.
Lee |
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LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys 49 2A “If you wait, you only get older” 67 M715 American Made Rolling History |
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Bob W
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Posted: 26 June 2013 at 2:20am |
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According to published service information the trailer socket hole and cover went away at CJ-2A 224391.
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ericw
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Posted: 26 June 2013 at 3:13am |
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Hey Tim! The lefty is doing fine! I have done a little 'tinkering' but mostly just having fun driving it. I find that the original color most probably gray as well. Found the gray under coats of yellow and metallic green. It's a shame the firewall plates are missing...also, don't know if it is pertinent to your research...I can find no tailgate #
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Eric
1948 CJ2a 'Angus' Body ACM# 171327 Member IAFFC |
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jeepnut48
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Posted: 12 Aug. 2014 at 2:31am |
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Just saw this post,neither does my 48 with serial #202600
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cj2a51-10
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LesBerg
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Posted: 12 Aug. 2014 at 4:26am |
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My 2A, 157713 does not have ACM numbers on the tub, and the tailgate was missing. Frame and tub tags match and show no signs of having been tampered with.
It does have the trailer socket hole.
The paint on the cowl support is the original Luzon Red, though peeling pretty badly. It's clean enough that I would think that the numbers would show through. Am I looking in the wrong place? I checked on all sides, but my understanding is that it should be on the front vertical face of the bracket, correct? Edited by LesBerg - 12 Aug. 2014 at 4:29am |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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athawk11
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Posted: 12 Aug. 2014 at 7:33pm |
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Yes. On the driver side. Your ACM may be there. The stamping isn't very deep. I had to strip the paint down to clean metal before finding the ACM on my '46 2A. And even then, it was hard to read. Tim
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Bruce W
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Posted: 12 Aug. 2014 at 8:10pm |
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Late in '48, when Willys took over body manufacture from ACM, the number was no longer stamped on the toe-board gusset. The number was ACM's number (I guess that's why it referred to as "ACM Number"
 ) and when Willys started making their own, it was no longer needed. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Hud
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Posted: 12 Aug. 2014 at 8:27pm |
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I have no idea when the ACM #s stopped but my serial # is 158031, only 318 higher than Les' and has no ACM #s either.
From the info I can find, our serial #s should be toward the first part of '48.
Hud
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"Go For Broke"
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LesBerg wrote: