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willys54wagon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Aug. 2008 at 12:30pm
I have been reading that there are quite a few seats for cj and they are spedific to models and if you don't get the right ones they don't fit well.
 
Does any one have good references for the types of seats and problems experiences in adapting seats.   Some where I saw a good source but can't find it now and maybe that info should reside here.
 
 
Steve
Ames, IA
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug. 2008 at 10:22pm
Steve,
 you are correct that the post should be here. Luckily I have just done a couple seats and am going to install tradereeds OD covers in the plow Jeep for now...Anyway here is a start to your request. These are CJ2A seats, I'm not compairing anything here. This is from the '45 parts list...I haven't checked if somehow the seats changed during production, I don't believe so, but I'm sure someone will pipe in if this isn't the case.
                   GROUP 31 - 09 - SEATS
FRAME, front seat driver..........................Part No. 663598
SEAT, front driver, assembly....................Part No. 663253
Pan, frontseat, driver, assembly .............Part No. 663607
 

 

 

 

 
                          Group 35 - 19 - PASSENGER SEAT
FRAME, passenger seat, assembly, ....................Part No. 663605
PAN, front seat, passenger, assembly ...............Part No. 663607
 
           
 

 

 
 
The seat pans are 18" x 15 1/2" and have a radius on the corners at 1 5/8 ".
Both driver and passenger seat pans are the same.
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2008 at 6:46am

Here are the driver's seat parts as listed in all three parts list.  There was apparently a slight difference in how the seat was attached between the early and later seats, but it is not clear from the list what that difference was.  I do not see an indication that the seat frame or pan was changed, though, but the complete assembly has two numbers.  (There is only a single set of numbers for the passenger seat.)

GROUP 31 - 09: BODY -- DRIVERS SEAT
Part No. Description Useage Qty Superceded Lists
663253 Seat, Drivers, Assembly 1 1
663615 Seat, Drivers, Assembly 1 2,3
663117 BACK, front seat, assembly 1 1
663617 COVER, trim, drivers seat back, assembly 1 2,3
663698 COVER, trim, drivers seat cushion, assembly 1 2,3
663621 CUSHION, drivers seat, assembly 1 1,2,3
53782      BOLT, hex. hd., 5/16"-24 x 1 1/2" Driver's seat cushion to frame 2 1,2,3
53047      LOCKWASHER, 5/16" Driver's seat cushion to frame 2 1,2,3
663598 FRAME, drivers seat, assembly 1 1,2,3
53390      BOLT, hex. hd., 5/16"-18 x 7/8" Drivers seat frame to front floor 2 1
53933      BOLT, hex. hd., 5/16"-18 x 7/8" Drivers seat frame to front floor 2 2,3
5437      WASHER, flat, 5/16" Drivers seat frame to front floor 2 1
53735      WASHER, flat, 5/16" Drivers seat frame to front floor 2 2,3
51833      LOCKWASHER, 5/16" Drivers seat frame to front floor 2 1
53047      LOCKWASHER, 5/16" Drivers seat frame to front floor 2 2,3
50805      BOLT, hex. hd., 5/16"-24 x 1 1/4" Drivers seat frame to wheelhouse top panel 1 1
53936      BOLT, hex. hd., 5/16"-24 x 1 1/4" Drivers seat frame to wheelhouse top panel 1 2,3
50813      WASHER, flat, 5/16" Drivers seat frame to wheelhouse top panel 1 1
53735      WASHER, flat, 5/16" Drivers seat frame to wheelhouse top panel 1 2,3
53047      LOCKWASHER, 5/16" Drivers seat frame to wheelhouse top panel 1 1,2,3
666504 LEG, drivers seat (welded to frame)
(After serial no. ...)
1 2,3
663607 PAN, drivers seat, assembly 1 1,2,3
663686 SPRING, front seat back, assembly 1 3
663558 SPRING with PAD, front seat cushion, assembly 1 2,3
 
Speculating, I would say that the difference is the availability of this item in the '47 and '49 parts lists:
 
666504 LEG, drivers seat
(welded to frame)
(After serial no. ...)  
               . ...  1                       2,3  
 
(In the List column, 1 is the '45 parts list, 2 is the '47 parts list and 3 is the '49 parts list.)


Edited by samcj2a - 25 Aug. 2008 at 7:11am
Sam

1946 CJ2A   15292 ACM    6678

1947 CJ2A 122031 ACM 111989

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2008 at 11:45am
Sam, I suspect you're on to something, re. the seat leg.

Can't tell for sure from Garys photos, but it appears the leg shape & mounting changed.  Mine looks like this, with the odd twist:

Garys looks straight & flat.

Gary, can you get closer photos of the leg?

Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2008 at 11:56am
I hesitate to mention it, but, what would lead to new numbers for the flat washers and the lock washers.  The bolt threads could have changed, but the washers?  Willy-nilly?
Sam

1946 CJ2A   15292 ACM    6678

1947 CJ2A 122031 ACM 111989

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2008 at 12:08pm
Sam:
Quote I hesitate to mention it, but, what would lead to new numbers for the flat washers and the lock washers.  The bolt threads could have changed, but the washers?  Willy-nilly?
A LARGE portion of fastener part numbers changed between the '45 & '47 list.  The specs did NOT change, as you can see from the short list you posted.  They're all still the same thread, length & diameter, just different part numbers.

I haven't a clue why.

Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2008 at 12:46pm
Finish and grade come to mind, although I think only finish would apply to washers.  Confused
Sam

1946 CJ2A   15292 ACM    6678

1947 CJ2A 122031 ACM 111989

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brachus12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug. 2008 at 3:04pm
Bugger has the same strange twist on the seats as well.

Brachus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug. 2008 at 8:31pm
I realized that I might see a difference in the legs between my early '46 and the '47 so I looked.  The '47 has the last 3/8 inch or so turned up at the 45 degree angle as Sean has shown but the '46 is flat at the end.  The '46 does not have the twist as with Sean's.  I cannot determine if the '47 had the twist or not because of the modification done by the PO in welding some coil springs on the bottom of the seats. He bent the leg up into a U shape so the seat could bob up and down a bit. Ouch
Sam

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1947 CJ2A 122031 ACM 111989

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug. 2008 at 10:06pm
Sam,
I believe there was a seat option that came laterdown the road that had a shock on the whole seat back.....Don't have anything here other than I've seen it...
  I had to go and look at all the projects I have going on and compair. Tongue    These are the sets from three different projects (and an extra or two)
 
These are front seats, yes there is definitely a difference in the mounting bracket. The passanger seat is the same type of twisted bracket difference, that would be more stable if the welders were truely as bad as they were on the frame and elsewere, but needed this part to work "Willys standards", as far as the frame and other assemblies, They must have needed more metal to work with....  So I guess the question is is the twisted one the early or late.. #36xxx, #58500, and what I think I have for #1xx21 has the straight with no extra tab to weld to. I'm thinking that the straight ones are early and they had problems with the welds breaking....don't know, no memo or letter, no proof. Just thinking out loud.
 

 

CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug. 2008 at 10:23am
Gary, another mystery to solve! Shocked

Just "thinking out loud" too, I woulda guessed the straight ones came later:  quicker, cheaper & easier to fabricate, and Willys was always trying to save a buck.

#16279 has the "twisty" leg.

Sean


Edited by sean - 27 Aug. 2008 at 10:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug. 2008 at 10:50pm
Sean,
I guess this one waits for further input....Wink
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug. 2008 at 11:30pm
I think that the "twisty leg" is not the most important difference in the drivers seat legs.  I believe that it is the extra bend at the top of the leg where the weld to the seat frame is.
 
In this photo of Gary's, that extra 1/2 inch of leg metal is visible on the first and third seat leg from the left.  It is absent on the the second, fourth and fifth (right-most seat leg).  That extra bit of metal is also present on my '46 - #15292 and the '47.   I suppose that the twist could have been straightened out enough that it isn't observable on my '46 and, as I said earlier, the '47 leg is badly bent so the twist may or may not have been there.   Also, in rereading Gary's earlier post, I belive that he was also talking about this same bit of extra metal providing a larger area where a weld could be made, thus providing a stronger joint.  So, I think that the legs without the extra length at the joint with the seat frame are earlier since both my '46 and '47 have the extra metal on the leg as does Sean's '46.
 
Sam

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1947 CJ2A 122031 ACM 111989

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug. 2008 at 10:05am
Sam:
Quote I think that the "twisty leg" is not the most important difference in the drivers seat legs.  I believe that it is the extra bend at the top of the leg where the weld to the seat frame is
Exactly.

The "twist" is there so the "bend" lines up with the inward angled tube.  Without the bend, the twist isn't necessary.

Both theories are valid:
  • the straight butt weld broke easily, so was later changed to a stronger method, or ...
  • the twisted bent unit took more time & effort to fabricate, so was later changed to a simpler method.
More research is needed to figure it out.

Sean
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote del clear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug. 2008 at 12:13pm
On my '46--sn 79366, the driver's side leg is "twisted" and the leg welded to the curve on the seat frame.  I am as certain as one can be, under the circumstances, that this is an original seat, but it is impossible to be 100% sure.  I'm leaning toward Gary's rationale--that weld on the non-bent leg just does not look strong enough.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug. 2008 at 3:52pm
the 45 seats have the twist, looking at old photos of my old 48, it did not have the twist...however, i cannot be certain the 45 seats are originals....i'd like to believe they are, but hey.....stores still sell white wedding dresses, and we ALL know how original the person wearing the white could be :)~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug. 2008 at 10:04pm
All we can do here is await others findings. It could be that "whoever" made these seats had to save a penny too....Who made these seats?  I understand that a different engineering drawing must have been made up to require a new part No.........? Who made these seats Willys? or was it ACM?
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug. 2008 at 7:40am
Originally posted by GaryArf GaryArf wrote:

All we can do here is await others findings. It could be that "whoever" made these seats had to save a penny too....Who made these seats?  I understand that a different engineering drawing must have been made up to require a new part No.........? Who made these seats Willys? or was it ACM?
 
Gary, that is partially true, I have seen on the drawings were Willys would simply modify a drawing and give a new part number for the same part. Multiple part numbers are on the very same drawing in some cases. If Willys was making the change, once a drawing was "released for production", it was up to the supplier to follow the drawing as close as possible, however, when Willys was being supplied by multiple suppliers for the same parts, there very well could have been differences in the products, and Willys seemed to not care as long as the product closely met the criteria of the drawings...
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