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L134 Distributor |
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Hoghead 
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Joined: 12 June 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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 Topic: L134 DistributorPosted: 12 June 2007 at 9:08am |
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Hello everyone,
I am new to the forum, but happy I found it. I need some help with my '51 M38 L134. Would like to put pointless ignition in place of 12v negative ground autolite IGW4189 point distr. Pertronix tells me they do not sell a kit for this distributor, so I would like to know what other distributors will fit my 134 that pertronix sells kits for. Their catalog lists Autolite IAD4008, Prestolite IAY4401 and Delco 1110225. Or if there are others please let me know. All your help is greatly apprciated. Rick |
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sean
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Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: North Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7388 |
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Posted: 12 June 2007 at 10:18am |
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Rick:
I can't confirm this, since I haven't done it myself yet, but I've been told that Pertronix does have a kit for your distributor. In their catalog, it's not listed under "Automotive", but under "Additional Applications by Distributor": Autolite/Prestolite - 4-cyl. IGW series: Ignitor part # 1545I don't know if works on 12 volt though. Ask Pertronix Like so many other parts, it depends on WHO you talk to at Pertronix. Some of them are ignorant of the "industrial" and "other" applications. Otherwise, the IAD-4008 works. Sean |
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Hoghead
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Posted: 12 June 2007 at 1:30pm |
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Thanks Sean for the info I think I'll order the 1545. I've located it at an Orielly's store nearby. I have the distr. out of the engine at present. When re-installing, should I turn engine over until timing mark is tdc, and configure the rotor cap to point at the no 1 plug on the cap?
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sean
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Posted: 12 June 2007 at 7:14pm |
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Rick:
What's "Oreillys"? A parts store, specialty store? As long as you haven't removed the oil pump, the distributor can only fit back in one way. Look down the hole w/a flashlight and see which way the slot on the end of the oil pump is oriented. The tab on the end of the dist. shaft fits that slot. It's offset to one side so can only go back together one way. Sean |
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Windancer
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 4:46am |
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Rick:
How would you have how do you know which is the No.1 plug on the cap? The 'pictures' in the manual that show the cap are reprinted pooly so that I find in difficult to be sure which cap-to-wire-to-plug is correct. Looking one way, it looks like No.1 comes from distributor location 'two o'clock'and then maybe 'four o'clock'. Windancer I'm working on getting my CJ2A to run. |
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Windancer
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Hoghead
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 7:36am |
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I am almost sure you can turn the engine until the timing mark is at top dead center, remove the distributor cap, and the rotor should be pointing at the number 1 plug. After that, just put the wires in firing order. If that is not correct, someone please correct me. I'm pretty much just a shade tree mechanic myself.
Rick |
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russnj
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 8:33am |
 43 MB, 48 CJ2A, 50 CJ3A, 55 M38A1, 56 CJ5, 79 M151A2, M100 ,65 M416 |
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TERRY
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 10:10am |
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You might want to pull #1 plug and feel for compression as you go to tdc so timing is not out 180 degrees. Terry |
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BOULDER 48 2A
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samcj2a
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 10:49am |
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I don't think that you can get it wrong by using the TDC mark. I think that the plugs fire on the exhaust stroke as well as the compression stroke on these puppies as well as on other 4 cycle engines.
I guess I could have waited to express this little opinion until I had a chance to actually test the theory, but it's something that I remember from long ago. If the recollection is wrong, the great thing about this site is that we'll all know quicker than I can test it!
 Edit: Maybe the evidence that I'm wrong on this is the offset key at the bottom of the distributor shaft. I think that if the distributor rotated once per crankshaft revolution so that the plugs fired on exhaust as well as compression, it would not matter if the key were symetrical because there would be two ways to install the distributor that would work.  Okay, now I think this thought process is flawed too. I guess I need to test it and wait for others to chime in. Edited by samcj2a - 13 June 2007 at 11:43am |
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Jus*Jack
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:14pm |
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Sam -
"I don't think that you can get it wrong by using the TDC mark...." Oh YES, YOU CAN!!!! Long story here, but the bottom line is: You can NOT "trust" those wonderful little ol' marks on the flywheel! I know, 'cuz we've just gone through a very long and tedious process of replacing an oil pump, and dicovering, the VERY hard way, that those marks were 180 degrees OFF on my flywheel! There's a wonderfully-detailed series of posts over on the "G", regarding the complete re-build of an L-134, and I had read it, several times...but of course, I _thought_ I knew better! Wrong! My engine had been sititng for many years, and had been used in a farm (read: dirty) environment, so it had a lot of sludge in the oil (no filter, either, remember me?) and that had plugged the passages in the block. Well, we pulled the head to clean things out, and also replaced the oil pump, which was similarly plugged, I suppose. At any rate, we put the head back on withOUT verifying TDC...and that was a BIG mistake! The re-build post very clearly states that there is NO OTHER WAY to verify TDC on one of these engines! Yep, sure enough, after several attempts at installing the oil pump and gettting everything set to the "correct" timing...except the pistons (the head was already back in place)...we were beginning to be THE "most experienced oil-pump-replacement-team in the world! My guess is that it came off and went back on well over a dozen times! Could NOT get it to run. Backfire, yes...and loudly! But run, no. OK...bite the bullet, and pull the head back off, set the flywheel to the marks that could be seen, verify the tappet positions, etc...and when you looked at the pistons, #2 & #3 were at TDC, NOT 1 & 2!!!! I've read, in various posts around the web, about the fact that evidently Willys was notorious for "slapping 'em together" sometimes, and my engine seems to fit into that category. It _could_ be the exception to the rule, but I'll bet not...and if I EVER have to change out another oil pump... 
I suppose that just _because_ these engines are SO "basic and simple", they can eaisily come back to bite you if you're not paying close attention to every little detail. We could have saved so much trouble, if we'd just looked at those marks when we had the head off the first time! BTW...every engine is likely to be just enough different, that you need to consider your particular engine in this regard. Mine had been rebuilt at some point, as we determined by one piston appearing to be slightly different, and the fact that the engine number had been stamped over, and the block painted an orange color, but that's just a guess on my part. Proceed with your brain engaged! (and I'm gonna invest in several spare head gaskets, just in case!  )Edited by Jus'Jack - 13 June 2007 at 12:18pm |
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Seeya!
<Jack> '48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug" '48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise" |
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sean
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:19pm |
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Rick:
Was this engine running before you pulled the distributor? If so, there's no absolute need to get #1 at TDC compression. The distributor can only fit back one way, regardless of how the crankshaft is rotated. Once it's back in, time the engine as usual. I'm also assuming, being a '51 M38, that you've got a timing marker up front on the pulley, so you have the luxury of using a timing light. Having #1 at TDC might make it a bit easier, but only if any previous reassembly was done correctly. Stock distributor cap & wire positioning :  If it won't slot in this way, you'll need to verify oil pump position by looking down the hole to see what angle the slot is at. Or... just keep turning the distributor until it drops in the slot. Crude diagram of approximate factory oil pump shaft position w/#1 at TDC compression (zig-zag area is the offset slot):  Align the distributor shaft tab so it fit's the oil pump slot. Sean Edited by sean - 28 Sep. 2008 at 2:34pm |
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Jus*Jack
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:27pm |
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Sean's right (of course!
One other thing that I should add to my post...the entire problem stems from my removal of the oil pump, in order to replace it. There's a bit of a trick to this step, and it tends to escape those of us who aren't paying attention...the gear on the oil pump shaft has a bit of a twist, or spiral to it. Thus, when you install it, the position that you're holding it in as you slide it into position is NOT the one that it's going to wind up in! As that spiral gear slides across the cam's gear, it rotates from about the 9 o'clock position, if memory is serving me correctly, into the 11 o'clock position...IF you've done it right! Bottom line? Make sure that you don't remove the oil pump unless you HAVE to! And if you do, put it back following the explanation above. |
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Seeya!
<Jack> '48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug" '48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise" |
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sean
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 1:38pm |
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Guys, there seems to be a natural
tendency for this issue to get overcomplicated by lumping everything
together instead of taking them one step at a time. It can be
simplified by compartmentalizing:
The only one of these that is a "deal killer" is #2. Get this wrong and there's no fix except to take it apart & put it back together correctly. All the others are no big deal. The engine can still be got run, just not "conventionally". Flywheel to crankshaft - if you get this wrong (180º off), just use #2 or 3 cylinder to set the timing. Oil pump to camshaft - if you get this wrong, it simply means you have to rotate the distributor body to a different position than shown in the manuals. (Jack has posted the instructions "from the book"). If you get it way off, the distributor might not rotate far enough, depending on your distributor:
Once mechanical assembly is done, then you can think about timing & other tune up parameters. If the mechanical assembly is done "by the book", everything else falls in place. From the past: CJ2A Timings Sean Edited by sean - 02 Jan. 2011 at 2:39pm |
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Jus*Jack
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 3:09pm |
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You're absolutely correct Sean...EXCEPT...in your #1 item, you have to KNOW that the flywheel is connected to the crankshaft 180 degrees out of the "norm". That was the case in my instance...we _ASS-YOU-ME'ed_ that the timing marks on the flywheel were in the "correct" location to use the front cylinder as #1, etc. That was really my point in all that discussion: do NOT make any sort of assumption, no matter how common it might be to believe that the manufacturer placed a mark on the flywheel that actually MEANS something!
For future reference on this particular engine, we have now engraved a TDC mark in the "correct" position for reference when using the forward cylinder as #1. |
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Seeya!
<Jack> '48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug" '48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise" |
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sean
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 4:17pm |
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Jack, I see your point.
You do eventually have to "discover" that it's not right, but once discovered, the workaround is trivial. Only a timing chain issue prevents having a good running engine. In your case, you could have simply used #2 cylinder to set the timing. Sean |
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Jus*Jack
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Posted: 13 June 2007 at 7:00pm |
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Exactly!....IF...we had but realized the "mistake".
As the post on the "G" states, you can't use whistle devices, a finger in the spark plug hole, etc. (we tried that approach. Sigh.) to determine when you are at TDC. That's really only possible when the head is _off_ of the block, and you can see the pistons and valves and their respective positions. If that's the case, and you don't at least have some reason to suspect it, then I would think that a rational person (there are other reasons to sometimes believe that I don't qualify under that term!) would do as we have, and continue to try to time it from the front cylinder as #1. It's only after the fact that you'd know the sad truth... My suspicion in this case is that when the engine was rebuilt, rather than correct the original error from W/O (I presume that's where it began), that the rebuilder did as you suggest, thus continuing the problem for the next guy...ME!
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Seeya!
<Jack> '48 CJ2A 197207 "Junebug" '48 CJ2A 191237 "Turquoise" |
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Hoghead
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Posted: 29 July 2007 at 7:48am |
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Finally made it back up to the farm a few weeks ago, with my autolite distributor in hand with pertronix 1545 kit installed in it. I installed the dist. and realized I had the firing order backwards, so put new wires on in correct order, ccw!. It fired up and after a little timing and fine tuning, it runs like never before. I've never had a better running engine with more horsepower than ever. Even though the pertronix people said they did not have a kit for this distr., the 1545 fits and works great. Thanks for the info and help guys.
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Jonesy
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Posted: 29 July 2007 at 9:09pm |
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I'm ready to make an order, but just to be certain....
Let me see if I have it straight: For L134 with IAD4008 distributor use Pertronix 1545 for 6v, and Pertronix 1541 for 12v system?
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1951 CJ3A 1948 Willys Pickup 1954 Willys Pickup 1947 Bantam BT3-C Trailer |
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I am almost sure you can turn the engine until the timing mark is at top dead center, remove the distributor cap, and the rotor should be pointing at the number 1 plug.