Dauntless Drivetrain Change

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   Are you running the stock mechanical replacement pump with the two outlets?   I'm plumbing in a new tank now and am going to route a return line back to the tank for the smaller, 1/4" pump outlet.   I've suffered a lot of vapor lock problems on another MB I own, and I'm thinking this recirculating fuel will help prevent that on this jeep

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tamnalan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 08 Oct. 2013 Location: Port Orford, OR Status: Offline Points: 991	Post Options Post Reply Quote tamnalan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Apr. 2024 at 4:53pm
	Are you running the stock mechanical replacement pump with the two outlets? I'm plumbing in a new tank now and am going to route a return line back to the tank for the smaller, 1/4" pump outlet. I've suffered a lot of vapor lock problems on another MB I own, and I'm thinking this recirculating fuel will help prevent that on this jeep
	Alan Johnson 1942 MB - "TBD" 1943 MB - "Lt Bob" 1950 cj3a M-100 x2 teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Apr. 2024 at 10:29pm
	I am not running the 2 outlet pump. When I originally acquired Wilson 30+ years ago, it had a Buick V6 from a '65 Olds, (as I understand it). Those only had the one line. In 2018 I replaced that engine with a Dauntless from '68 Commando. It had the 2 line "return" fuel pump, but I was in a time crunch then, and was not sure of best practice on how to dump the returned fuel into tank, so I put the 1 line mechanical pump back on. The 2 line should certainly be better to help keep the fuel cooler. I was planning to try that next, but decided instead to replace it all.

tamnalan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 08 Oct. 2013 Location: Port Orford, OR Status: Offline Points: 991	Post Options Post Reply Quote tamnalan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Apr. 2024 at 11:37pm
	I did a test and there's more fluid flow on that 1/4 line than I expected! I thought it would be just a dribble. Maybe a half gallon in 30 seconds. It should help keep vapor lock away. What was your solution? Pusher-type electric pump near the tank or something? Edited by tamnalan - 15 Apr. 2024 at 11:38pm
	Alan Johnson 1942 MB - "TBD" 1943 MB - "Lt Bob" 1950 cj3a M-100 x2 teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Apr. 2024 at 12:18am
	Cool! . . good to know . . I wondered how much fuel is returned on the 2 line mechanical pumps. I have not installed my planned solution yet. I actually started today, but several other life issues came up. I made very little progress. My overall plan is to install Sniper fuel injection . . . the first step is a electric fuel pump. I am intrigued by a kit that Aeromotive offers, with an in-tank fuel pump that sets inside a cylindrical foam enclosure. The return line pumps the fuel back into this enclosure. They claim it will work in a 6" deep tank. I am sure it will work fine with a reasonable amount of fuel in tank, but curious what will happen when tank gets low. I am thinking about doing this in 2 steps. First to see how the fuel pump works in real life conditions. I will be installing an adjustable pressure regulator at the carb, that will reduce pressure 1-7 psi. If this seems to work in various offroad conditions, then I will install the Sniper. That will take more work to get sensors etc installed . . and will be the second step.

tamnalan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 08 Oct. 2013 Location: Port Orford, OR Status: Offline Points: 991	Post Options Post Reply Quote tamnalan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Apr. 2024 at 12:25am
	What sort of gas tank are you using? Stock?
	Alan Johnson 1942 MB - "TBD" 1943 MB - "Lt Bob" 1950 cj3a M-100 x2 teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Apr. 2024 at 12:44am
	"Stock" tank . . a repo I got back in 2018, I forget from where.

jeepsterjim Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 13 July 2011 Location: lincoln, ca Status: Offline Points: 1283	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeepsterjim Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Apr. 2024 at 12:50am
	I went with a pull type electric fuel pump on a stock tank and had no problems.
	Jim CJ-2A - 81299

AKoller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 Sep. 2018 Location: Moundridge Kans Status: Online Points: 652	Post Options Post Reply Quote AKoller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Apr. 2024 at 7:15am
	I'll be watching with great interest on how you go about adding fuel injection. This is something I want to do as well. I'm just tired of carburation in general. I've been battling in my head what the best route is for me. Do I try and fuel inject my Dauntless or do I swap in something that is already fuel injected like a 4.3 or maybe a little Ecotec 4 cylinder?
	1950 CJ3A "Thumper" 1966 M151 A1 1942 GPW #70221

Gaffer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2015 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 174	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gaffer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Apr. 2024 at 11:39am
	I have gone back and forth many times in my head. Carb or EFI? I like the idea of EFI but I like the simplicity and challenge of a carb. I ran across this a little while back and it might give some insight. I have not pulled the trigger yet but, .... it does sound nice. Installing Holley Sniper EFI on a daunting, odd-fire V-6: Part 1 - Hagerty Media How to make EFI work with an odd-fire V-6: Part 2 - Hagerty Media Lots of good details.
	-Gaffer

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Apr. 2024 at 12:28pm
	Those articles are exactly what got me thinking about doing this. I knew there were issues with the odd-fire engines, but that crank-triggered sensor seems to eliminate that problem. I actually acquired everything last Fall, but can't seem to ever find time. I don't want to start into it, unless I know I can finish without too much downtime. I use Wilson too much.

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr. 2024 at 10:03pm
	Today, I installed my "stage 1" step, on the path to fuel injection . . the electric fuel pump. I imagine there are better ways, but I thought this seemed like an interesting way to go. Aeromotive has a kit that places a fuel pump in the tank. The pump sets in a foam "bucket" to minimize cavitation when tank is low on fuel. It was the only solution I could find that would work with a shallow tank. Being in the tank, I am hoping the pump will be cooler and less noisy. I have no experience with an external pump. This one can be heard if engine is off, but not once engine fires up. This kit claimed to work with a minimum 6" deep tank . . the tank in Wilson is a repo, I forget exactly which brand etc, but most likely whatever Walcks was selling about 5 years ago. Their kit did work in this tank. The pump is high pressure, to eventually feed the upcoming Sniper fuel injection, but for now sends fuel to a Holley pressure regulator on the firewall. This regulator reduces pressure to 4-5psi to the carburetor. It is a return-type regulator, so excess fuel is sent back to tank. (just like the Sniper). All the plumbing I did can be used in future. So far today, I only was able to verify there are no leaks, and took Wilson for 20 minute test run. The real test will be longer drives, idling in the woods trails, turning off and letting set, then starting again. (all the random things that seemed to be "vapor lock", and I have been fighting for past few years) I did not take a lot of photos, but have some to share later, mainly to give a rough idea of the Automotive kit. Their instructions were very good, so I did not feel it was necessary to detail the installation.

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr. 2024 at 10:22pm
	I was hoping to have the Sniper installed for Southington run at Spring Reunion, but that is probably a long shot. Less than a month away!! I could probably do the O2 sensor in exhaust, make a crank-trigger bracket, and other things like that . . but what concerns me, and reminded with this stage-1 work . . Wilson's electrical wiring is a disaster . . much of it is from p.o. when I acquired 30+ years ago, and I cobbled onto that. I think to do this right, I need to basically start over.

AKoller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 Sep. 2018 Location: Moundridge Kans Status: Online Points: 652	Post Options Post Reply Quote AKoller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr. 2024 at 7:52am
	Ron, can you share a link to where you purchased the fuel pump assembly from? I'm really hoping this works really well for you so I can copy hat you have done.
	1950 CJ3A "Thumper" 1966 M151 A1 1942 GPW #70221

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr. 2024 at 10:30am
	I don't remember exactly where I ordered from, because it was 8 months ago that I bought everything. I believe it was from Amazon though, because it was quite a bit cheaper than straight from Aeromotive or Summit. I notice the same is true now. This is photo of carton: This is screen shot from Aeromotive site: Basic instructions - drill 3.25" hole in tank - using that ring in center as drill guide for 10 holes (#2 drill bit included) - clean tank - put the "C" shaped ring in tank, with studs sticking up - Use that ring in center as funnel, and stuff the foam bucket into tank - put the thick black gasket over the studs - install the pump to bracket, (to work with 6" tank, it will need to be as close to top as possible) (you can see that the return will be inside the foam basket, I thought that was good idea) (not shown in photo is a flat round strainer that attaches to bottom of pump) - put pump into tank - install nuts to clamp against the gasket (not shown in photo are some sealing washers to go under the nuts) Note: I put a plug in that vent port. Hope that is correct thing to do. Wilson has the stock cap that vents pressure if too high, and prevents vacuum if it were to occur. Edited by JeepFever - 19 Apr. 2024 at 10:32am

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Apr. 2024 at 8:57am
	I was curious how well the foam would keep the fuel pump from cavitating. Once installed, the intake filter screen will be setting close to the bottom of the "bucket". As an experiment, I took the piece of foam that I cut off, put it into the rubber bucket, then set in a oil pan with gasoline in it. (looks a little dark, in photo below, because it also has some used oil mixed in). My hope was that this was some kind of miracle foam that would wick the fuel, so that the level inside the bucket was higher than the outside the bucket. That was not the case though. I tried to take some measurements with a laser level and tape measure. The level did seem to be about 1/16" higher, but that would not be really all that helpful. Next test was sloshing the fuel back and forth, (shown in photo below) to simulate what might be happening while traveling down an uneven trail. In this test, the bucket did maintain a level, so it appears the fuel pump intake strainer would probably have a better chance of staying in submerged in fuel. Hard to tell in photo, but the bucket has about 3/8" of fuel at bottom. So I guess the bottom line is that the foam surround will help some, but not a miracle worker. If on slope, and tank close to empty the fuel pump will get uncovered. One plus is that the return fuel is going into the bucket, so that might help for a little while (until it also drains out the holes at bottom of bucket)

JeepFever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Online Points: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote JeepFever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Apr. 2024 at 9:19am
	I got a chance to do some testing yesterday. Several hours of some trail cleanup on my son's property. There were several trees that had fallen across trails during recent high winds, plus doing some trail widening. This is the type of activity that was causing "vapor lock" issues before. Slowly moving around trails, idling for somewhat long periods, turning off, then starting back up, etc., also some on-road driving, then parking. It was not a hot day, about 75 degrees, so not a severe test. Today, it always started right up, and never stumbled or stalled-out as it did before. On this day at least, it was clearly better. Also testing the fuel "pickup" concern . . . I am carrying a can of gas, letting the tank go empty to see when it might be noticeable. The fuel gage just hit "E", and that means there are only a couple gallons of gas in the tank. I had no problems yesterday, even in some moderately steep conditions . . hoping to get over there again today, and try some steeper and off-camber trails.