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mercedes diesel swap info request

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kansascat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kansascat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: mercedes diesel swap info request
    Posted: 17 Dec. 2013 at 9:59pm
Has any of you guys either done of know someone that has done a mercedes diesel engine swap into a willys cj? I have a OM616 4 cyl mercedes diesel out of a 240D that i want to put into my 3A. Now ideally i would love to swap in engine and its matching 4sp tranny. The tranny is the same physical size as the T90 but actually a bit lighter. The only thi.ng is its a side shift rather then a top loader but i dont have a big issue with using a floor shift kit to operate it....but it sure would be neat to have 4 gears and all of them fully syncronized. The merc diesel lookslike a ideal candidate for the swap as its almost identical in specs as the L134. 62hp at 4000 rpm and 104ft lbs at like 2400 rpm. non turbo. I figure with a bit if tweeking it should be able to get 75hp as the later models were turned up to that anyway. My hope is to gain just enough more power to let me install a 30% OD and have enough power to gain a bit more speed for road use while making a bit better economy which in turn will extend its range when playing in the mountains of colorado next July. If i cant fab a adaptor for the tranny to TC then i will go with just adapting the engine to the T90. Anybody have any insight to share before i get started? Thanks/
So many projects and so little time.
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generaldisarray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote generaldisarray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec. 2013 at 12:59pm
I am in the end stages of this exact project right now.
Do you have a specific question you need answered?
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kansascat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kansascat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec. 2013 at 9:13pm
Probably would be hard to narrow it down to one specific question at this point. LOL First off, did you just swap in the engine or the engine and tranny from the benz? The main thing im trying to figure out is the adaptor design for which ever way you went. It would be RREEAAALLLLLYYYY great if you had pics and dimensional specs for what you ended up going with. I really am amazed the OM616 is not a much more common conversion into the old flatties seeing how they are one of the closest matching spec engines and one of very few diesels that are so well balanced...right down to being balanced with the specific flywheel they came with..and being capable of turning the rpms that the 134's did so the gearing will still work pretty well, and dimensionaly fit well under the hood. Please share what you have done on yours if you would and again...pics are worth a thousand words. Also would like to see and learn how you dealt with the oil sump on the benz as that looks to be the most dificult thing to contend with in it physically fitting and clearing the front dif and drive line. So, i guess my two most desired bits of info are the adaptor setup design and the oil sump mods needed. Looking forward to learning whatever you can share. Thanks so much.
So many projects and so little time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote generaldisarray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec. 2013 at 12:14pm
Ill post some pictures shortly.
And you can have the drawing of my adapter. I had it cut via waterjet. Finished it myself on a bridgeport and surface grinder. I chose the OM616 after first thinking of a Kubota and I could have had a Kubota for free.The Mb sounds super "diesely" at idles and shakes pretty good. But just off idle and all the way up in revs it is totally smooth and vibe free.I kept the T90 and Dana 18 because I couldnt think of a good way to use the transfercase with the MB gearbox. I seriously considered going 2wd only and having three separate sticks for gear changes, so seriously that I still have that gear box as a fall-back. But I am ready for road testing now and have done about 20 minutes of static (jack stand) testing. So I dont think I will be going that way now.
I wont go into the Willys resto stuff.
Here is a list of the things I have done just concerning getting the OM616 into the Willys.

.Steel plate adapter from MB engine flange to Willys T90 bellhousing 
.Lengthened IH Scout T90 inputshaft(My gearbox and transfercase came from a Scout, I think they are the long v6 version, not sure)
.Superlift 2.5 lift springs 
.Custom motor mounts
.Custom transfercase mount
.Gearbox mount shim approx 1.2 tall. Gearbox mount is in the original position, just taller.
.Tom woods cv rear driveshaft( I havent got this yet but I think road testing will say its needed)
.Battery relocation
.Radiator and hoses( I didnt have the radiator to start with. So the original may work)
.remote oil filter
.Hydraulic throwout bearing and custom spacer 
.electric radiator fan
.I am going to lift the body by 2.0 to clear the air filter and valve cover and maybe to clear the gearbox since it is now higher in the air.

I have made no alterations to the oilpan. But I may need to. Im taking a wait and see approach.
I have not altered the MB exhaust manifold, and I dont think I will need to.
I have avoided any alterations to the CJ that cant be undone. I think Im trying to preserve the character and look of the Willys.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kansascat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec. 2013 at 1:36pm
Excellent. I Am really looking forward to seeing and learning more about how you have gone about your swap. Im sure since mine has the stock jeep cj2a T90A i will run into some things that will be different, but i think just getting to see others will prove vary helpful. Having read your list of things you have done or know will have to be done, the first question that came to mind was why or what caused the need to raise the tc and tranny? My preliminary measurements had me thinking that the mb engine from crankshaft centerline to top of valve cover and such should fit well under the hood. I already swapped the stock oil bath out for a case skid loader dual element dry filter canister that i think will be fine where it is for the mb....i mounted it in stock location but lowered it down just above the frame rail. I had not given the batter current location and if it will work or not so will look forward to seeing what you wound up wih there as well as throttle linkages etc. I had planned on going with a 1" susp lift and a 1" body lift....but again, its hard to tell untill one get into the actual build...so any specific issues pertaining to what you ran into on clearance issuse esp if they were what required the 2.5 susp lift and 2" body lift. I really am shooting for a closer to stock ride height and the lower c of g that come with it since we like to ride the colorado mountain trails each summer. Hopefully the shorted jeep T90 input shaft wont be a deal stopper as i just rebuilt the tranny and tc last spring with lots of new parts including the input shaft. I am guessing you raised everything to gain clearance for the mb front sump oil pan? I am thinking more along the lines of making a new oil pan with a sump located where it will have the needed clearances.
Cant wait to see your pics and drawings...and again...thank you very much.
Steve
So many projects and so little time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote generaldisarray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec. 2013 at 4:21pm
"the first question that came to mind was why or what caused the need to raise the tc and tranny?"

Oil pan clearance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec. 2013 at 5:39pm
Cant wait to see pictures of this project....my dad loved loved loved those Mercedes Benz diesels...when he died he had 3 of them...I dont think I have ever seen one in early Willys Jeep tho...this will be a neat project to watch...

thanks for sharing your project on here.

MikeC
1947 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote generaldisarray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec. 2013 at 12:46pm
Ill take some pictures this weekend. It is too dark in the garage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kansascat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec. 2013 at 2:38am
For those watching this thread, i ran across some pics i took of the benz diesel engine that i got. I put it on my engine stand and rigged it up to get it running as it had been sitting out in the tree row for many years before i hauled the old car home and pulled it out. The front sump oil pans they used is the biggest hurdle it looks like to me, and i have a buddy whos family owns a foundry and he is very talented at making molds and casting stuff and seems to think he can cast a new oil sump for me with a rear sump....if i cant just modify the sheet metal oil pan part of it to get the needed front dif clearances.



Edited by kansascat - 22 Dec. 2013 at 2:40am
So many projects and so little time.
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kansascat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kansascat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2014 at 7:46pm
Just checking in to see if by chance ya got any pics taken before the acrtic blast hit.
So many projects and so little time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garage gnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2014 at 8:18pm
You guys do realize the oil pan will be a big issue with the differential. That is what make the mercedes engines so difficult to use.
Nate
1953 3A, 1949 3A, 1947 2A, 1918 IHC Titan 10-20, 1905 IHC Famous, other hit n misses
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BillF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2014 at 8:38pm
I did see an m38 in Rhode Island that had this engine.  The put spacer blocks between the spring hangers and the frame on the front to make room for the oil pan.  They did not do it in the rear so the jeep had a reverse rack on it.  The owner did say it drove nice and they get really good mpg with it.
1952 m38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kansascat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2014 at 10:36pm
G gnome, yeah. I probably will make a new oil pan for it...with the help of a talented friend whos family owns a foundry. He looked at the engine on the stand and when i said i had to solve the issue of the front sump cast aluminum oil pan the first thing outg of his mouth was " well lets just cast up a new one with the sump where ya need it to be" K sounds good to me...but i have not opened it up yet to see what will be required to modify the oil pickup to work with it. Like my dad used to say...a man built it the first time, it cab be built again.....right?
So many projects and so little time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote generaldisarray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan. 2014 at 10:15am
No I didnt. I had help over to assist with the tub install when I originally planned to take a few pictures. The help proved to be a little impatient, and I didnt get the chance. I will setup some work lights in the garage tonight and take a few crappy pics. 
By chance have you seen the oilpan mods thay do for Toyota-OM617 swaps?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote generaldisarray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan. 2014 at 10:48am
kansascat, can you open dxf or dwg?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kansascat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan. 2014 at 11:10am
general, i am computer illiterate so i dont know if this laptop will open those type of files or not. Guess we can try and see. As for the pics, dont make a special trip over and set up just to do them, i am not to the point of doing it yet, just was inquiring so this thread was not lost and forgotten as i am just at the stage of getting my mind wrapped around what and how i want to do it. I looked at the om617 pan mod link you shared...and that is kinda along the lines of what i am thinking i will be doing with this 616 engines pan as my friend seems to think it wont be to big a problem to make a pattern and cast up a new shaped pan. If we do and it works out well, i will probably see about making a few extras to offer up for sale to help defray the cost of making them as i really think the 616 would be one of the best candidates for the old willys conversions with them being so easy to find and cheap compared to most others and they have almost identical ratings as the L134 does in stock form. Thanks for the link and when ya get the time and are there snap some pics please.   
So many projects and so little time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote generaldisarray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan. 2014 at 12:14pm
http:////drive.google.com/file/d/0B_nfCLVEW0a5Nnd5SENVdFRWSm8/edit?usp=sharing

This is a pdf see if it works. then I will put up one with dimensions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote generaldisarray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2014 at 6:11pm
finally some pictures






























q&a to follow


Edited by generaldisarray - 11 Jan. 2014 at 6:31pm
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