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Need help with the Year of my new Bantam T3-C purc

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Pitt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Feb. 2020 at 11:15pm

Just bought a Bantam T3-C trailer for use behind my ‘48’ CJ2A.  This was a great deal for a trailer in very good shape.  I only spent a couple hundred dollars and I intend to be using it so I will fix it up but it won’t be completely original.  

No taillight, the tongue is a mess and it has some rust holes in the bed, but not much at all.  My real disappointment is that it has no data plate.  It came with a title as the PO did get it titled in 2008 as a Homemade Trailer.

Here is what I know to help with identifying an actual year for this trailer:

-Stake pockets inside the bed (3 on each side)

-All hooks around the trailer (3 on each side, 1 front and 1 back)

-Holes and old rivets for the ID plate are there

-(10) leaf springs w/C-style shackles

-(1) light bracket on the left side with a “welded” frame

-Axle is welded in the center

-The Landing Leg has 3 holes (edited)

-original color was green

-“V” slot in tongue frame channel 

-No Shock Mounts

My intent is to strip this trailer down, remove and not replace the topper, repair as necessary, rebuild the hitch area back as close as possible, paint to match my Jeep, use NOS parts where available and use repro parts when I need to.  It will look great, match my Jeep and be very usable.

I know I will never get a serial number but I’ve read about all of these items in the forums as being hints to the year of production.  With the above info, can we make a good estimate about the year and why?

(My first post here, I'm working on the pics.....)



Edited by 48cj2a - 27 Feb. 2020 at 10:20am
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2020 at 1:03am
If you'd simply scroll down the forums page of this website you'd find a bantam trailer section. In this section, with a few minutes of looking, you would find a link to all the info you need. But, here it is for ya. Should answer many if not all of your questions and help you nail down a year and serial number range. 

Welcome aboard. 

http://bantamt3c.com/bantamdatabase.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2020 at 3:43am
Wow, it's pretty easy to be condescending when someone asks a question but I think if you read the into the detail of the info I was providing you would have known that I read every post in the trailer section for the last (14) pages!

What I got out of all that reading was what to look for and then several answers as to what each of those items actually meant.  I took the time to look for all the indicators into my question so that those of you who really know whats going on could help me sort through them.  The threads in many cases don't actually answer the initial question, they just ask more questions to find an answer.  Most threads didn't actually answer the question because all the information hadn't been provided.

I thought if I gave you as much info as possible you could help me with an answer.  So much for that.......
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2020 at 7:52am
Pitt,

Welcome and Congrats on finding a trailer.

It's very easy to assume or conjecture in text communication but that aside please email me some pictures and I will make an educated guess for you as to a year range. 48cj2a@sbcglobal.net

If you have done any extensive research there are no "Official" records for production from the Bantam Company only Military Contract records so my database was created from an old Yahoo Groups Forum some 11 + years ago as a starting point and then owners contacting me with their trailer information.

I've recently have been going thru many old posts on the G503 1/4 ton Trailer Forum and some initial posts here where there is some controversy but without original title info or sales receipts the database is the best information I have right now.

I've added over 30 trailers in the last couple months going thru old emails and my G503 relook working backwards oldest to newest posts and I'm at page 95. I've only seen 3 or 4 who claim to have original titles but none have provided me an archival copy.  
Art C USAF (Retired)

47 CJ2A #134955 Project
48 CJ2A #206759
62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900
45 T3-C #191 Project
http://www.bantamt3c.com
http://www.48cj2a.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2020 at 3:50pm
Congrats on your "new" trailer!
 
As Art has pointed out, there's very little to go on.  Using what's posted here in the trailer section and using Arts website to see how that all maps out really helps with narrowing it down.  Fortunately, you have just a handful of years to pick from.
 
I like the database that Art has, as it helps sift through what your trailer has (hitch, spring hangers, notches on the A frame, etc).  It's really not too difficult to narrow it down.  Using the known list, you can also compare the images of those trailers to yours.  Be careful around the tailgate as you remove paint - just in case you have remnants of the "Bantam" logo.
 
The welded tail light bracket is, I believe, the way they came.  The tailgate chains (from what I've seen) are also welded on as well. 
 
What a disappointment that the rivets somehow survived but there's no data plate.  If you get to a point where you start thinking about replacing the data plate consider adding a letter to the serial number, i.e. 12345R, as these trailers do pop up from time to time and if you pick a serial number that actually exists, it would be another frustration.
 
I'm curious if you have holes (more like slits) in the front corners of the bed - where the side panels join with the front panel, just above the angle brace.  I've wondered if those could be a (possibly original) addition vs. rust/damage to aid in drainage.
 
Added:  The "V" notch suggests early.  You'd want to look for other things like the casting type, whether the spring mounts (hangers) have holes in them, B/O switch hole, etc.  Some things can be swapped, similar to jeeps where parts are interchangeable so sifting through everything and getting Art's help will narrow it down.


Edited by Rus Curtis - 26 Feb. 2020 at 4:17pm
Rus Curtis
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1954 CJ3B
Bantam T3-C
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2020 at 5:43pm
Thank you very much for the info Art.  I will send you pics this morning.  Please don't hesitate to ask about anything else that may be helpful.
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2020 at 5:47pm
Hey Rus, I will check on the holes/slits in the front, later today.  What "Casting Type" info should I be looking for?  I assume you are talking about the casting at the front of the hitch frame that the Landing Leg hangs from?  The front of back spring mounts will have the holes?  I appreciate you working with me, thankx..........Pitt
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2020 at 5:54pm
I found your Facebook post, Take some of the front looking at the whole front end so it shows the whole tub, front frame and Draw Bar, then can you get one of the drawbar hitch casting that show which of these it is...can't tell from the booger welding if the square is cast into the front of it or if its a mass of added metal. Also a left and right side and rear pic. A new production change I need data from everyone is two piece welded axle (seam in the middle) or smooth - your clearly shows the seam...this may or may not pinpoint a change.



Art C USAF (Retired)

47 CJ2A #134955 Project
48 CJ2A #206759
62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900
45 T3-C #191 Project
http://www.bantamt3c.com
http://www.48cj2a.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2020 at 7:10pm
Art, I have sent you several emails with more pics and answers to the questions you have asked.  Thank you so much for your time and I very much appreciate your attention............Pitt
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2020 at 2:58pm
Brad, 

I took liberty in moving your post to the "Your Project" section.

I received and reviewed all of your pictures and then spent a good hour last night comparing a few things which resulted in another couple hours this morning reviewing a ton of trailers front frame corner gussets without the black out switch whole and updated that column to record "M" for Mid change to the gusset.

Another finding was that the data plate spent a short time up tight to the rail and then moved back down - SN 3798 is the earliest to move back down that I have pictures of...yours is mounted low...

This makes my suggested determination of 1946 within SN: 3444 - 7999

Another recent production change possibility is if the axle is two piece (welded seam in the center or smooth solid tube) I do not have enough data yet but some random reviews of trailer that have good clear images leads me to believe at some point they changed axle suppliers or perhaps made them in house.

Your trailer clearly shows a welded seam in the center so...

With more data on the axles we might be able to narrow the SN range.

As to a couple of your questions the landing leg pivot casting has 2 or 3 positions (don't understand the purpose of the middle position) but yes your has three so I edited your post.

As for "Springs" they are pretty much stock CJ-2A Front Springs. The later design trailer with the 2 strap shackles at some point went to thicker and fewer leaves for sure, but prior to that would probably be another Mid change due to possible different supplier.

Its probably another field to create and then look at each trailer to update the column.


Edited by 48cj2a - 27 Feb. 2020 at 3:06pm
Art C USAF (Retired)

47 CJ2A #134955 Project
48 CJ2A #206759
62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900
45 T3-C #191 Project
http://www.bantamt3c.com
http://www.48cj2a.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2020 at 9:06pm
Art, 

WOW, very cool.  You are definitely the authority here.  Your database is really the key.  Being able to actually look at vehicle pics and relate them to S/N to create datelines is great!

I guess they made some T3-C's in '45' with the leftover war part inventory so '46' was the first full year of production, is that basically correct?

Have you been able to narrow down about how many were produced each year?

When did production end for the T#-C?

I really appreciate all your work and time.  This is obviously a passion for you.  I will continue to send you pics as I work through this project.

Thankx again....................Pitt
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rcrhea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2020 at 9:56pm
YEAR      SERIAL

1945        1-2000
1946        2001-18,000
1947        18,001-25,000
1948        25,001-32000
1949        32,001- up

Not sure where I got this.  These are estimates.  Hope it helps you.

Richard



Edited by rcrhea - 27 Feb. 2020 at 9:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 48cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2020 at 8:45am
I have seen that same chart before as well...

If you have not seen it yet please take a moment and read the edited header of the database page.

I found an old email I received from Louie Larson former owner on Willys Minneapolis and T3-C SN: 87.

I had contacted him when I was creating the webpage and this was his knowledge from research at the time.

If Bantam had filled its Military T3 contract and was still building trailers in hopes of an extension or renewal it most likely had trailers built and on hand (this make perfect sense to me). If a Bantam Engineer had the forethought to modify and create a tailgate, install a automotive trailer coupler and commercial tail light to keep the company in business then this totally makes sense for the trailers on hand and the surplus of parts still in stock. 
Art C USAF (Retired)

47 CJ2A #134955 Project
48 CJ2A #206759
62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900
45 T3-C #191 Project
http://www.bantamt3c.com
http://www.48cj2a.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2020 at 6:19pm
I'm becoming "intimate" with the website!  I keep going back to look at pics in the s/n range you narrowed us down to.  I'm getting the differences and like reading the history that you have provided and some have provided with their s/n info.  This a fantastic resource......::
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Batjac65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb. 2020 at 2:35am
Hey Pitt - glad to see you on here. I’m the guy who was going to come to AZ to visit my daughter and buy that thing Wink. Looks like you’re going to narrow down a timeline on your trailer.

Edited by Batjac65 - 29 Feb. 2020 at 2:38am
1946 CJ2A #75375
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb. 2020 at 2:41am
Wow, I didn't even know anyone else was in the hunt?  I met the man about 3 months ago and he told me about it.  I didn't have time to go see it right then and I gave him my card.  He lost the card and I didn't know who he was.  Then he caught me rolling down the highway in my Jeep and he followed me to the gas station.

I told him it was a Bantam and what I thought it was missing.  He seemed happy that I was happy and sold it to me right away.

Don't hesitate to holler if you come down this way.  We'll BBQ and tour the area.  I'll post pics as the project rolls on.
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb. 2020 at 8:17pm
Pitt, I will apologize for the negativity you felt in my post. The search function is often not used and ends up creating lots of clutter on websites with questions that get asked over and over and over again. I get tired of seeing it but should not assume it always the case. For this, I apologize.

I determined within minutes, by using your description and comparing it to the chart on the Bantam site that your trailer must be a '46. V notch was gone by '47 according to the chart so I can't be newer than a '46. The tie downs tell me that, because there were none with only 3 tie downs on the sides in '45, that it can't be a '45. So it must be a '46.

I am very happy that we still have people finding these trailers and showing a real interest in preserving them. Welcome to the site. Great people here with tons of knowledge. I'll try to be a better member. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2020 at 11:15pm
Thankx for reaching out.  I appreciate the feedback.  I love Jeeps and now the trailers, I promise to keep reading and learning....................Pitt
"Pitt"
'48' CJ2A Jeep
'52' WO Truck (Project)
'46?' Bantam T3-C Trailer (Project)
These 5 words in my head scream "Are we havin' fun yet?"
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