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Peggy: 1947 CJ-2A Light Diesel Build #123456 |
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RustyAutoholicGuy 
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 Topic: Peggy: 1947 CJ-2A Light Diesel Build #123456Posted: 02 Sep. 2018 at 5:15am |
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Hey Jeepers, *UPDATE* I've updated what I'm doing with my build but leaving what I originally posted here just for archival purposes. Here is the current (final? maybe) build plan: Peggy: 1947 CJ-2A Light Diesel Build #123456 *UPDATE* Well, I've gone and decided to do it. I'm building my dream Jeep and it's basically a mixed bag of everything so I've decided call this project, with the help of my kids, Peggy! I actually started a build thread back in 2016 but I'm changing so many things about this build that I'm starting a new thread. At this point, it's going in a completely new direction anyway. My long-term goal is to take this rig on the Rubicon Trail. The Mission Having changed directions on what I want out of my 1947 CJ-2A so many times I've decided I wanted to set up a theme for my build or a mission statement. I find it helps keep me on track. So essentially I want to build a Jeep that looks like an original MB Style Jeep with more modern steering, brakes, simple suspension, and drivetrain. I want the Jeep to be light and capable yet rugged enough to tackle the Rubicon Trail. I also want to keep the build to a reasonable budget as much as possible, so I will be using used parts and trying to keep using Jeep components as possible. I'm also going to try to honor the heritage of the originally CJ-2A so I'm going to sticking with a 4-cylinder engine and 3-speed transmission. The Body So a little history, back in 2016 I bought a running titled 1947 CJ-2A, I've always wanted one and now I have one. Here is a picture of it the day I brought it home:  It did run and drive, but the synchros were gone and it has issues, it's 70 years old. The steering was shot, brakes weren't great even though it had been modified for disc brakes, the cooling wasn't great, the transfer case didn't want to work, the exhaust fell off, but it's my CJ-2A and I love it! The Frame I'm going to be attempting to build me own frame. I was going to use a TJ Wrangler frame as a donor, but I've decided to attempted to build my own frame and keep the CJ-2A true to it's heritage so I will be keeping a simple leaf spring suspension on the CJ-2A! The Engine I knew I wanted a diesel for the torque and type of slow off-roading I enjoy, I also wanted something simple and light so I went with a Kubota V2403 engine:  I'm going to put installing a K03 Turbo with an intercooler, so I'm looking at around 110HP and roughly 300ft/lb torque. Another consideration with going with the diesel is improved fuel economy. Talking to Ken at KubotaSwappers, I should be able to achieve mid 20s on my miles per gallon which means longer trips and overlanding with having to carry less fuel! The Adapter For the adapter, I'm using KubotaSwapper's kit to make the V2403 look like a Small Block Chevrolet Engine. Ken makes a great product, and I want to keep the cost of this build as small as possible for the time being. Please check out Ken's site, KubotaSwappers.com, Ken has been an amazing source of help and information, especially since I'm switching builds on him! Drive-Train For the transmission, I wanted to keep a 3-speed in my 2A so I decided to go with a TH350 automatic transmission for it's size, and availability of parts and upgrades. I will be using the stock factory Dana 18 transfer case, I have two, I'll will be rebuilding one and maybe in the future I will be adding a lower gear set to the CJ-2A Axles and Tires I'm going to be going with Dana 44 front and rear axles that I bought back in 2016, they are in the field behind my house at the moment, so I will need to move them to my shop, strip them down, rebuild them and get them installed. Currently I believe they are 4.11 gears. For wheels and tires, I'm looking to run an oversized NDT tire, I would love to run a 35" but my wheels are only 15, and I know they make a 900x16 NDT, so I'm going to have to figure that out as well. Outline: 1947 CJ-2A body Custom Frame CJ-3A windshield Willy's MB 9 Slot Grill Kubota V2403 Turbo Diesel engine TH350 3-speed automatic Dana 18 transfer case Dana 44 Front and Rear Axles Disc Brakes Front and Back I've actually already stripped the CJ-2A down but I'm trying to complete the drywall in my shop so I will post pictures later this week as I get everything moved back into the shop! Let me know what you think! Thanks DieselJeepGuy47
Edited by DieselJeepGuy47 - 08 Aug. 2019 at 2:39pm |
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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Ol' Unreliable
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Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Posted: 02 Sep. 2018 at 6:00am |
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There's about a 14-1/2" difference in wheelbase between a 2A and a TJ. What are you going to do to account for the difference?
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Joe Friday
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Posted: 02 Sep. 2018 at 6:53am |
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I'm gonna watch how this project unfolds.
At one point I considered the CJ3A to TJ combination. (4.0 gas and 3 speed auto) Between the wheelbase differences and the need to modify the rear wheel houses to accommodate the frame kickup on the TJ I decided I didn't want to go that way. My daily driver is now a KJ with a 2.8 liter VM CRD and a 545RE transmission. I liked it enough that I bought a spare drivetrain. I figured the spare drivetrain would go in a stretched CJ3A. I changed direction again and picked up another 2.8 CRD but this time with a 5 speed manual behind it. I'm thinking the auto may go in a Willys wagon, and the 5 speed in the CJ. I have a long history of abandoning projects, so I'd rather watch yours... |
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Oilleaker1
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Posted: 02 Sep. 2018 at 12:09pm |
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I think the V2203 kubota is rated at about 51 HP without the turbo and 60-65 with a turbo. Your V1903 is less I believe. The fuel mileage with OD and 5:38's in a CJ2A or 3A is 31 MPG with a V2203.
You have sure got a bunch of stuff to get mated. I looked at a 2.5 TJ wrangler 5 speed set up to install in a CJ2A frame and body and decided that the axles would need narrowing. Not as easy as I would have liked. The fuel mileage for a 2.5 TJ is about 17 MPG!!!!!! A stock go devil in a CJ gives about 17 MPG!!!!! They haven't learned much have they?  Overland Diesel's adapter plate incorporates the correct spacing for the stock Jeep input transmission shaft, Kubota starter, Kubota block, Kubota flywheel, and large Jeep bell housing. All at once. Your concept is different again. I'll enjoy watching how it turns out.
 Thanks for posting. John |
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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RustyAutoholicGuy
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Posted: 02 Sep. 2018 at 5:05pm |
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Yeah that is the most important question decision at the moment. I haven't decided, but one of two things are going to happen. I'm either going to length the CJ-2A body or shorten the TJ frame. I'm actually considering shortening the frame at the moment, but I won't know exactly what I'm doing until I get the Wrangler tub off the TJ Frame, that is the goal for this coming week.
Hehehe my daily drive is a 2006 Jeep Liberty KJ with the 2.8L CRD engine with the 545RE transmission. It's actually my tow vehicle.  I haven't figured out exaclt what I'm going to be doing with the frame yet, again I should hopefully know in the next two weeks or so.
Yeah, I actually had Oberland's kit and sold it. Great kit, I have nothing bad to say about it, I just wanted an automatic more than using the T-90 transmission. So the V2203 is about 51 HP and the V1903 is actually more like 38 HP. However, I'm not using the turbo setup that Overland recommends which is like 12~14 PSI of boost I believe. I'm going to be using the K03 turbo from Borg Warner with a water-to-air intercooler with about 28PSI of boost which is getting me the exact HP and Torque. By going with the 32RH 3-speed automatic and the NP231 I'm losing my ability to have an overdrive which is going to hurt my mileage some, but I'm looking at running 3.73 gears so that really helps but I'm going with 34x9.50r15 narrow Super Swampers so honestly who knows what the diesel mileage is going to be! Also, I'm going to try using both the factory CJ-2A and TJ fuel tanks, so I can have an auxiliary fuel tank on the TJ-2A! Again not sure how all of it's going to work, I need to get the Wrangler tub off and really see what I'm having to work with. From what I've measured, I might be okay with the rear frame and body because my CJ-2A body had already been modified in the past! Also for the axles being too wide, I have an idea on that as well. I'm looking to get rims that have a large amount of offset so help shove the wheels and tires closer to the TJ-2A body and frame. Thanks DJG47
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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Ol' Unreliable
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Posted: 02 Sep. 2018 at 5:29pm |
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The TJ is quite a bit heavier than the 2A. That'll make a difference in the mileage.
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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nofender
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Posted: 02 Sep. 2018 at 5:39pm |
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This guy has a build very close to what you are thinking - sans the Diesel.
I think he's done a very nice job of it. May be some tips in here for you. |
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46 CJ2a rockcrawler
46 CJ2a - 26819 46 Bantam T3c "4366" 47 Bantam T3C - 11800 68-ish CJ5 |
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RustyAutoholicGuy
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Posted: 02 Sep. 2018 at 6:32pm |
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Thank you so much for the link! That is actually really helpful. I just finished reading through most of the thread and it has been very informative!!!! I'm still leaning towards cutting the frame and keeping the stock 80" wheelbase mostly because my sheet metal welding skills are horrible, I do fine on thicker gauges metals, though it might be how cheap my welder is. Also, I think between the Kubota V1903 being so much smaller than the 350 and going with an Extreme Short SYE kit I can make everything fit on the TJ-2A. Thanks DJG47
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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RustyAutoholicGuy
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Posted: 04 Sep. 2018 at 12:24am |
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Labor Day Update!
Finally got my shop clear enough, barely, to get started on tearing down the 1997 Wrangler TJ. I had already taken the CJ-2A body off the frame. Here is the picture of the CJ-2A body. I had actually painted it Rustoleum Hammered Copper but I'm going to be repainting body a Rustoleum Kubota Orange instead which is really close to the factory orange color CJ-2A's came with. Also orange is my favorite color    Here is how the Wrangler is looking as well. I was able to get the windshield frame off but broke my Torx bit trying to get the roll cage unbolted.  I've also decided that I really don't want to cut the body at all, so I'm going to attempt to shorten the TJ frame to as close to an 80" inch wheelbase as possible. I can't cut the frame where I was expecting, so I'm going to be taking some measurements this evening to determine where I can shorten the frame up. I'm hoping to get as close to 80" inches as possible but I'm not going to be opposed to making it 81 or 82" wheelbase either. Thanks DJG47
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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RustyAutoholicGuy
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Posted: 05 Sep. 2018 at 3:24pm |
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Well ran into my first of what I expect is many complications. I didn't realize this when I bought the Wrangler but someone welded the hitch receiver to the stock bumper and then to the frame
    Also, I removed, I think, all the body tube bolts and I've started to try to lift the tub off the frame. I have something still attached in the rear which might be related to the gas tank, I'm not sure so I will be investigating that this week as well.  I've also started to try to figure out where I can shorten the frame. I didn't realize the TJ frame Y'ed out like it did in the center of the frame so I'm trying to come up with ways I can cut as close to 12 inches out of the frame as possible. Right now I have two ideas. I have two parallel sections that are close to 12 inches, one section is 6.5 inches and the other is a little more than 4 inches long. I could cut those out and shorten the frame there which would reduce my wheelbase by 10.5 inches.  My other idea I had this morning is to cut the long section in the middle of the frame which would be considerably easier and to recut the angles so the frame lines up correctly. Honestly neither is ideal and I'm trying to figure out the easiest way to calculate the angles that I would need. Also, I'm pushing forward on getting my shop cleaner as well, probably should have done it before I really started but I've delayed this project long enough and I really just want a Jeep to take out on the trails sometime next year if at all possible. To gain every inch of space I can, I've been looking into different cooling solutions and I think I'm going to put an Austin Mini Cooper radiator inside of the grill so I can move the engine/transmission/transfer case forward to get the driveshaft as long as possible. For the intercooler for the turbo, I'm going to have to go with a water-to-air setup with an electric water pump. I'd rather go with a mechanical water pump honestly just to reduce the number of electrical items on the TJ-2A but I can't seem to find an accessory drive water pump that isn't designed to bolt directly to an engine block. If anyone knows of one please let me know!!! -DJG47
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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Stev
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Posted: 05 Sep. 2018 at 4:05pm |
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DJG47
This might be a little late - seeing how you have taken the Cj2A apart. But you could sell the Cj2A and use the money to buy a sheet metal kit for a MB and use the extra dollars to fund this project.
That way you would be starting with a good tub that could be extended to fit your TJ frame without any of the potential hat channel and rust issues often seen on old Jeeps. Plus another CJ2A would still be out there for some other old Jeep dreamer. Looking forward to seeing this build. |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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RustyAutoholicGuy
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Posted: 05 Sep. 2018 at 4:14pm |
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Trust me I considered it, but I'm rather attached to my CJ-2A and the serial number as well. Once I know for sure I'm going the TJ Frame route, I was going to sell the original frame, and running gear as well. There is a small possibility that I can't use this frame so, for now, I'm keeping the running gear I do have. I do have a set of Dana 44 axles for my original frame that I was originally going to use that have 4.11 or 4.10 gears. I should be picking up my 32RH and NP231 transfer case in the next week hopefully. I might mock up the entire thing in my the original frame and see how it might fit. I really wanted the more modern steering and suspension but if it's looking to difficult to do, I'm going to use my original frame and those Dana 44 axles I have and build the CJ2A that way. I wonder if I could use YJ Springs on my CJ-2A original frame? That might be easier to set up than trying to go with the TJ frame  -DJG47
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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RustyAutoholicGuy
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Posted: 08 Sep. 2018 at 9:58pm |
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Quick update!
Got the side steps off and the Wrangler tub completely unbolted. I'll be getting pictures up this evening once my camera battery recharges. Decided to no shorten the frame, I'll be stretching the body to fit the TJ Wrangler frame. I'll post more details this evening when I can post some pictures! Thanks DJG47
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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RustyAutoholicGuy
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Posted: 10 Sep. 2018 at 11:43pm |
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Well after looking at how much the TJ-2A project wasn't going to look like a the Jeep I wanted, I've completed changed directions, with a lot of loving discussions with my wife, and I'm going to be building a new frame for the CJ-2A and sticking with leaf spring suspension. I am still going to be adding an automatic transmission because I enjoy being able to off-road with it, but I will be using the original Dana 18 transfer case. I'm waiting to hear back on getting metal for the frame. Thanks DJG47
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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rocnroll
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Posted: 10 Sep. 2018 at 11:56pm |
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Good choice, IMO, on both accounts.
I like an auto off road too even though you'll soon know all the drawbacks to them from everybody that drives a stick. But there are advantages. |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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RustyAutoholicGuy
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Posted: 11 Sep. 2018 at 12:07am |
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Agreed! For me the biggest upside is really two different reasons.
I know it's going to be a lot of work, I have to actually find a TH350 that was a 4x4 with a short shaft, so I'll be on the hunt for that. Looking forward to getting the metal in so I can start building the frame! -DJG47
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1947 CJ2A #123456
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Ol' Unreliable
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Posted: 11 Sep. 2018 at 2:27am |
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I've always thought an auto trans is great for going uphill but not so great for going downhill. I can't remember how long ago it was, but there was a series of articles in JP magazine a few years ago about making a frame for a Jeep. I think it was Verne Simons and he called the Jeep "Project Ground Up".
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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bobevans
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Posted: 11 Sep. 2018 at 4:22am |
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I'm putting a TH 350 behind Kubota V2203. The adapter I'm using is from Greg at Overland diesel. I put YJ springs on a universal frame (a '56 DJ3A, but pretty darn close to a 2A frame). Dark is coming earlier, so I hope to get everything welded up in the next couple of months. To fit the TH350, I had to push both ends out pretty far, but it looks like it's gonna go.
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'48 CJ2A
'56 DJ3A '79 CJ7 And two of them actually run! |
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Ol' Unreliable wrote: