Gloss in Body Paint
Printed From: The CJ2A Page
Category: CJ-2A Discussion Area
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: General talk about the CJ-2A
URL: https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=44798
Printed Date: 18 Apr. 2024 at 7:02pm
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Topic: Gloss in Body Paint
Posted By: Arsene Wenger
Subject: Gloss in Body Paint
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 5:08am
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Hello All I was wondering when the original Jeeps came out of the factory how glossy / or luster less were they? I am assuming the were not luster less like a Willys MB or a GPW. But they were not very glossy like modern cars as well, to the best of my knowledge. Any tips on how much shine / gloss should a paint have. I am going for an Emerald Green finish which was original to my Jeep. In order to arrive at that colour i will have to mix paints. Here is my restoration thread in case anyone is interested https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/1948-cj2a_topic27154_page1.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/1948-cj2a_topic27154_page1.html Thank You  ------------- The Deeper the Foundations , The Stronger the Castle. |
Replies:
Posted By: Arsene Wenger
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 5:13am
Guys this is the closest example i have of an Emerald Green finish. What do you think? I think the 2A finish should have less luster ..   ------------- The Deeper the Foundations , The Stronger the Castle. |
Posted By: Rus Curtis
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 2:50pm
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I'm no painter but I believe the finish would be as glossy as any single stage paint job from back then. I've personally seen runs in the paint finish from the factory so a whole lot of care wasn't a concern. I did go with base/clear vs. single and had to convince the body shop not to buff until the shine looked like a mirror (they thought the shine would look better). I did find these covering the '48 color options: http://www.cj3apage.com/index/Tech_Tips/willys_paint_chips.htm" rel="nofollow -
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Posted By: damar2yxr
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 5:38pm
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These paints were a single stage alkyd enamel. They were much less glossy than the picture you provided. The paint will go on and look glossy but will probably fade and look less glossy as time goes by. A nice base coat/clear coat will be much more flashy and less likely to fade as much.
The Emerald green shade you like on the trike is pretty close. If you like it, use it. ------------- eat,sleep,jeep Proud father of a Marine, Army Dentist, Navy Pilot and a Princess. LIFE IS GOOD! 43MB,47CJ2-A,48CJ2-A X2,70Jeepster Commando 1/2 cab,84CJ-7, |
Posted By: Arsene Wenger
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 1:32pm
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I have to use Emerald Green because that was the original colour on the Jeep. It is not my favourite but sticking to it. ------------- The Deeper the Foundations , The Stronger the Castle. |
Posted By: Mark W.
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 10:06pm
Curious statement this kind of infers all early CJ's were used on the "Farm" which is far from the case. They were used by every imaginable sort of business and personal use. Yes they were marketed to farmers but at the same time many owners would have taken pride in up keep. Do you think a Service station that used a Willys as a courtesy vehicle or a Auto Parts store as a parts runner or a flower shop or drug store or firedept. would not be washing and waxing their investment? Also I know farmers who take better care of their equipment then most car owners. Which is why around here you see farmers still running trucks they bought in the 60's and 70's.. Not saying the paint jobs on new Jeeps was as fancy as a new Ford but I bet it was close. ------------- Chug A Lug 1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
Rus Curtis wrote:Posted By: nofender
Date Posted: 24 May 2019 at 12:01am
I'm with Mark on this one. I bet they gleamed pretty nicely when new. ------------- 46 CJ2a rockcrawler 46 CJ2a - 26819 46 Bantam T3c "4366" 47 Bantam T3C - 11800 68-ish CJ5 |
Posted By: Rus Curtis
Date Posted: 24 May 2019 at 12:29am
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yep. No argument on new. That's why I included a link that showed the shine. But, IF you'll read, I mean read what I said, you'd gather that I am hypothesizing. Not too many people around that bought those jeeps new to confirm or deny. I would guess that's what you're doing also (conclusion off of your own observations). So...... Would there be some that babied them? Yes! After all, we do know of some owners that have taken real good care of their family jeeps. Again, I was generalizing. But, point taken. Not all were neglected. ------------- Rus Curtis Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
Posted By: otto
Date Posted: 24 May 2019 at 1:05am
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One of my jeeps has the original paint on the inner fenders. The paint was applied rather flat and smooth so I can only assume that the rest of the paint was fairly smooth and glossy. It shines up nicely with some compound.
------------- 47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine 48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
Posted By: Ol' Unreliable
Date Posted: 24 May 2019 at 2:21am
"I use it as a runabout!" That's me in Ol' Unreliable. ------------- There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable |
Posted By: markcl52
Date Posted: 24 May 2019 at 3:11am
| This is a good topic. At some point in the next one (or five) years I’ll be repainting my jeep too. I’m really impressed by the nice glossy paint jobs I’ve seen. They look brand new and are a true testament to the work and skill put into them. I’m also a sucker for the well worn and faded paint. They look so authentic on these old jeeps. When I repaint I’m thinking about a finish closer to a satin than a high gloss. Partly because I’m somewhat lazy and don’t want the added effort of trying to keep up a nice shine. And partly because I know the finished product won’t be perfect and I think a glossy finish will make those imperfections stand out more. |
Posted By: mbullism
Date Posted: 24 May 2019 at 11:06am
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From a marketing and sales standpoint, I have to believe it was in Willys' best interest to sell shiny pennies, and ya gotta paint them anyway. Who wants a showroom full of lusterless anything? What happened after the sale and over the ensuing 60-70 years aside, I have to believe they left the factory with all the shine a single stage paint could muster... not six inch deep 15 coats of hand rubbed lacquer shiny, certainly, and I've never heard that they were clear coated. Without the protection of wax or a topcoat I have to believe the original shine came off that apple pretty quick, though- .02 ------------- Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany |
Posted By: athawk11
Date Posted: 24 May 2019 at 4:13pm
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Old black and white photos do give us hints on how shiny
these Willys Jeeps were. Not being there, and not ever seeing a perfectly “kept” CJ2A,
I can only assume the shine was there, but no where near what we expect
today. Paint was …and still is primarily
designed to protect steel surfaces and to slow rust. As Henry Ford once said, (paraphrase) “ You
can get your new Ford painted black…or black.”
I personally prefer a muted finish on a Willys Jeep. I went out of my way to achieve a satin
finish on this 3A. This was achieved by
using a satin clear coat. You can see
the difference between the Jeep and the gas can in this shot. The gas can was shot in a smaller paint batch
and I didn’t get my clear coat mixture measured out quite right. The Jeep is satin. The can is semi-gloss.
Here is the underside of my 2A tool box lid. This is a ’46 done with the Pasture Green
finish. The shine has lost a bit of luster,
but when I used a bit of polish, I was surprised how shiny I could get it. Still, it would probably be called semi-gloss
in this day and age…
------------- 1- 1946 CJ2A 2- 1949 CJ3A |
Posted By: Ol' Unreliable
Date Posted: 25 May 2019 at 7:43pm
I think the ideal would be to have several Jeeps, with one each painted lusterless, one satin, one semi-gloss, and one gloss all the same color. Oh, and one with its original paint with 70+ years of weathering. So you need at least 5 Jeeps of each color. That only calls for a couple dozen Jeeps to cover all the colors offered, right?  ------------- There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable |
Posted By: Mark W.
Date Posted: 25 May 2019 at 8:53pm
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LETS get back to the original question here. "I was wondering when the original Jeeps came out of the factory how glossy / or luster less were they?" He does not ask what a particular Willys owner wants their Jeep to look like he does not ask about a persons preference or interpretation of the paint. He wants to know what it looked like when new SITTING ON THE LOT WAITING TO BE SOLD NEW And I would be some good money that a Willys Jeep in the Late 40's had damn near as good of paint job as any Ford or Chevy. The type of paint they used would have glossed up nicely if applied correctly so there is no reason to assume or infer the paint wouldn't have had a nice gloss on it. I'm not making a comment on anyones choice as to finish. Just stating what I think is the obvious. New paint on a new vehicle looks shinny. Heck a New Farmall tractor was shinny Why wouldn't a Jeep be as well. ------------- Chug A Lug 1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
Posted By: 67charger
Date Posted: 25 May 2019 at 9:34pm
| The biggest problem with flat paint is you cannot wax it. I think the lusterless od green in ww2 used linseed oil to kinda protect the paint. I know this doesnt answer the question but look at the paint job from a maintenance point of view too. |
Posted By: rocnroll
Date Posted: 25 May 2019 at 9:57pm
Not sure what kind of answer you are holding out for Mark. Rus answered that as best that could be answered in his first post by posting a link to reference pictures of fairly new examples which are about all that we can go on since, to the best of my knowledge, none of us are sitting on a brand new, nicely stored example. You then went on to quote his post and say "Not saying the paint jobs on new Jeeps was as fancy as a new Ford but I bet it was close."...... then in your latest post "....... that a Willys Jeep in the late 40s had damn near as good of paint job as any Ford or Chevy." Then that shiney new Farmall was compared also......so looks like we are ALL down to hypothesizing on gloss (I also tend to think they would be just as shiney as that new Farmall too) So, hasn't it been answered about the best we can? Picture references are all we have. I don't read it that anybody is inferring that they came off the lot......lusterless. ------------- '47 CJ2A PU '48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
Posted By: athawk11
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 5:18am
Wow. I didn't mean to offend you Mark. I also didn't see the memo that says we're no longer aloud to offer an opinion here at the 2A Page. I suggested one approach to tone down the ultra glossy finishes offered with modern paint because the original poster appears to want something less glossy. ------------- 1- 1946 CJ2A 2- 1949 CJ3A |
Posted By: Mark W.
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 5:53am
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OK I never should have said a thing. Sorry ------------- Chug A Lug 1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
Posted By: Joe Friday
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 1:37pm
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Mark/Tim, OBVIOUSLY you are both valued long time contributing members to this page. There is plenty of room for opinions to be shared, and many times the leeway we provide our members to stray from the original topic of the post reveals other ideas and subjects of interest. Willys sampled their paint batches and did sprayout cards. When Renault discarded them in February 1982 a number of them were saved by employees and shared. My interest at the time was the Military colors from 41-81, but It looks like I did end up with President Red and Parkway Green from the early 60's. These have the same relative gloss as the samples of Willys auto paint from the 1940's. Yes, the Willys procedures are documented. They could be buffed out to a higher shine, but the plant concentrated on paint thickness, not gloss. There was significant variation based on existing photos. The most common discrepancies from original I see is the extensive efforts to make spot weld go away. 
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Posted By: Doug Timme
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 5:18pm
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"Mark/Tim, OBVIOUSLY you are both valued long time contributing members to this page. There is plenty of room for opinions to be shared, and many times the leeway we provide our members to stray from the original topic of the post reveals other ideas and subjects of interest." Exactly, I like to think of threads as fluid conversations. If we were sitting around a camp fire having this discussion, no one would be told they were straying off topic. I think this gets lost in the impersonal nature of the internet sometimes. Of course, there is the other end of the spectrum where someone asks a question about tire pressure and 6 posts later someone is touting the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow. It is all about give and take. Doug Oh, and my opinion is that they were fairly shiny when new. Not cut and buffed shiny, but certainly single stage implement shiny. |
Posted By: RICKG
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 5:34pm
African or European?? ------------- I never met a mule I didn't like! MC51986 "OD MULE" DOD 01-52 '50 CJ3A "Bucksnort". Keep 'em Rollin' |
Posted By: Mark W.
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 7:27pm
My money is on the North American Barn Swallow. We have then dive bombing us where we park our trucks at work the only thing compared to the Blue Angels they are missing is a good barrel roll. ------------- Chug A Lug 1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
Posted By: Joe Friday
Date Posted: 26 May 2019 at 11:57pm
| Yes, but neither of those swallows could carry a coconut, unless of course maybe they tied the coconut to a string between two swallows... |
Posted By: Doug Timme
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 1:09am
Awesome! I was hoping my reference would be picked up on, otherwise I might have to break out the Holy Hand Grenade..... and this is how threads get off track....
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Posted By: rocnroll
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 2:12am
Speaking of that, I see you made it through the storms OK.....I guess I should have titled it Jefferson City/ St Louis area storms the other day.  ------------- '47 CJ2A PU '48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
Posted By: Doug Timme
Date Posted: 27 May 2019 at 2:05pm
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Yes, we made it through OK, thanks. It is so strange that you can be fine and a few miles away from you people are getting pounded. The worst part of the storm skirted around us. Doug
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Posted By: Arsene Wenger
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 12:47am
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Gentlemen - Thank You again for your inputs. I have spoken to my paint guy who used to look after my father's old Fiat. The brief is to imagine he was painting in the 70s and try and get that kind of finish. The original paint samples are enormous help. I hope to share the results with you guys soon. ------------- The Deeper the Foundations , The Stronger the Castle. |
Posted By: Mike S
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 6:32am
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I dunno, but I painted my Jeep in tan with semi-gloss clear coat. Looks good to me. ------------- '47 CJ2A -- #114542 Warn FF D41 rear Lock-Right locker 11" drum brakes Dual master cylinder T90C Transmission 16 X 6 Jeep truck wheels Cooper STT Pro tires |
Posted By: Rick G
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 4:18pm
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Yeah, but I want to know about those two pig stickers on the dash panel drawing, that seems a little random. Particularly, the Bowie, I know the other one is a Ka-bar.🤔 ------------- 1947 CJ2a #119929 "Gus" 1951 CJ3a #451-GB1-24268 “Newt” https://youtube.com/channel/UCzTVBgCMit8vi2lFgnKs9YQ" rel="nofollow - My Videos |
Posted By: Joe Friday
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 10:00pm
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The paint samples are in the same drawer as the dash drawing I was looking at. The pig stickers are what I use to hold the drawings down, but I took them out of their sheath's since Mark was/is a knife guy. It's not your everyday bowie...
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Posted By: RICKG
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 10:20pm
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Don't mess with Mr. Friday.. ------------- I never met a mule I didn't like! MC51986 "OD MULE" DOD 01-52 '50 CJ3A "Bucksnort". Keep 'em Rollin' |
Posted By: rocnroll
Date Posted: 28 May 2019 at 11:04pm
Well don't leave us hangin'.... ------------- '47 CJ2A PU '48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
Posted By: Joe Friday
Date Posted: 29 May 2019 at 8:50pm
Never did get Mark's attention, but the BOWIE is unused, and was my dad's. I think it's 1940's? Heavy SOB  |
Posted By: rocnroll
Date Posted: 29 May 2019 at 10:16pm
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Wow! Beautiful.....that's a keeper for sure! Take 3 or 4 minutes sometime and YouTube the late, great Guy Clark doing 'The Randall Knife'. At least read the lyrics but it's best to hear his studio version. I have heard it hundreds of times in different versions and have never gotten through it dry-eyed yet....always reminds me of dearly departed men in my life. Give it a listen...you can't NOT like the emotions in the song. ------------- '47 CJ2A PU '48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
Posted By: Ol' Unreliable
Date Posted: 30 May 2019 at 2:53am
That's an Air Force survival knife. Did Ka-Bar make those? ------------- There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable |
Posted By: Joe Friday
Date Posted: 30 May 2019 at 4:28am
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That's an Air Force survival knife. Did Ka-Bar make those? [/QUOTE] CORRECT ! It was issued to my dad in October 1954 when he was working at Patrick AFB in Stewart Florida. I don't know the manufacturer. |
Posted By: shadow
Date Posted: 30 May 2019 at 6:01am
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I found this topic very interesting as I am in the process of painting my jeep at this time, I was using two body parts to try and match up the paint as close as possible , after painting the body I dug out my samples from my body and compared for colour and shine or glossiness and compared to the single stage paint I used and I found colour was good and for gloss or shine it was spot on, the only thing that is noticeable is the thickness or possibly the number of coats of paint the factory applied to the body , I applied 3 coats of paint and from what I can tell the factory may have applied one very heavy coat or two light coats of paint as just enough paint to cover the steel but still look good, one of the things to think about is paint cost money and the factory is not going to apply any more paint than is necessary , just like any car manufacture they will look at saving penny's per part and in the big picture it turns into dollars per vehicle of profit. ------------- lets go for a rip eh bud Andy |
Posted By: Joe Friday
Date Posted: 30 May 2019 at 8:47am
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Many times the paint application or thickness will be specified in the BOM (Bill of Materials) for a specific vehicle. I'm fairly certain I have that information somewhere, and I will try to confirm. |
Posted By: rocnroll
Date Posted: 30 May 2019 at 6:59pm
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Here you go Keith....early Fathers' Day present. From one of the best storytellers.... RIP Guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY5MOUO464Q" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY5MOUO464Q (those that listen to this, take a minute and read the comments under the video) ------------- '47 CJ2A PU '48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
Posted By: Arsene Wenger
Date Posted: 16 Jan. 2020 at 2:59am
 Used Duco Paint. Supposed to age well. Please ignore the green bits of the frame - that will be fixed ! I am quite pleased with the level of gloss personally ------------- The Deeper the Foundations , The Stronger the Castle. |
Posted By: Mark W.
Date Posted: 16 Jan. 2020 at 6:50am
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I come back to this late. But to answer why I made no comment on the knives. while I was a Custom Knifemaker for 14 years, I was never into antiques or collectable knives I know very little about either.
------------- Chug A Lug 1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
Posted By: a4cj2a77
Date Posted: 09 Feb. 2020 at 6:55pm
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I know I'm a little late to the party, but under the cj2a parts project in the reference photos the 3rd photo shows a 2a that looks to have nice shine with a good refection of the jeep delivery svc logo off the windshield frame reflecting in the hood and the 2nd photo showing the willys logo on the side of the hood reflecting on the top of the fender. Phil
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