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Targhee: a Moab/Rubicon flatfender build

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jbjeeps View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 12:08pm
So here's the first entry on this build thread.  

This Jeep will now be known as "Targhee".  We live up against the Targhee National Forest in that corner of southeast Idaho that touches both the Yellowstone and the Teton National Parks. Some of our best old Jeep rides have been on the roads of the Targhee. 

I'm thinking of this build as a "mild" rock crawler, if there is such a thing. :) I want a Jeep that will take me safely and reliably into some more extreme country, but I don't need a monster Jeep that will climb or descend the toughest obstacles out there.  

Thanks again for all the good info you've given me so far. I'm looking forward to this build and glad to have you all along. 

Jack




Edited by jbjeeps - 15 Aug. 2018 at 12:20pm
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 12:29pm
Pictures? Years ago a person had to host their pics on a website in order to post them in a forum thread. Is that still true or can I post directly from my phone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TateC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 12:43pm
I have had good luck with posting photos by using the tree icon in the tool bar in the comment box. I don’t think you need a hosting site anymore. This probably makes no sense what so ever but hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about will comment. 

Edited by TateC - 15 Aug. 2018 at 5:41pm
Tate Christensen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 2:04pm
The main thing to remember is when you take a picture with your phone, take horizontal pictures with the camera in the top left corner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 2:11pm
Don't start building this till you have a complete plan that entails at least the basics concerning the various assemblies. 

Like a ground up builds it will begin with the frame. 
You can use the frame you have or upgrade.
The best flatty frames are post 1949 through 1965 .
All of the post 1949 flatty frames are superior too pre 1949 frames.
My favorite flatty frames are the 3A and the 3B frames.
M38 frames are also good but I prefer civilian over the M38 frames for a few reasons.

Guess that we're ready to see pics of what you have for starters.

Enjoy the build......!

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 3:21pm
Oldtime - What are the "few reasons" you prefer the 3A and 3B frames?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

Don't start building this till you have a complete plan that entails at least the basics concerning the various assemblies. 


Sort of disagree with this statement a little.
When I started my build I had no idea what I wanted. I just knew I wanted to drive this Jeep sooner rather than later,  so I just fixed all the stock stuff and started driving.
As my experience and knowledge progressed I tweaked this and that to get me to where I am today.
If I had waited until I had a complete plan I would still be looking at a pile of parts in my garage and would never have driven an inch.
Yes, I have done some things twice or more times, and I have spent a bunch more money than I would have had I had my current end in mind when I started. But I also would not have the experience that I do now, or the understanding of why I like what I have now over what I had before.

So, if you have a plan that is good. If you don’t have a plan, use this:

1. Make if run and move.
2. Make stop.
3. Make it light up and legal.
4. Drive it like you stole it.
5. Season to taste but most important, keep driving it. 

I hate missing a trail driving opportunity because my rig is in pieces so I usually do my big stuff in the winter.

As always with opinions, your mileage may vary.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 8:07pm
Quote  Oldtime - What are the "few reasons" you prefer the 3A and 3B frames?
 
Dang !
 I was afraid someone might ask that. 
Now I have to try and remember why.... Ha Ha Ha !

Well it basically goes into the differences between the different flat fender jeep frames.

This link details all of the civilian flatty frames.



The M38 frame is the only other flatty frame mot detailed in that link.
Let me see if I still recall all the subtle M38 differences by memory.

The M38 frame has the foreward positioned engine mount on the LH side.
It has 8 extra holes at 7/16" diameter)on the rail sides for mounting 4 lifting lugs.
It has 4 extra 1./2" NF tapped holes at top of frame horns for tow hooks ???
It has two frame horn stiffner plates . 
Those horn reinforcement plates include two 7/16" NF tapped holes for a winch cradle.
It has threaded holes in lieu of civilian grill mounting brackets.
It has 7/16" holes for the spring pivot bolts. 
For comparison the Civilian uses a special 9/16" greasable pivot bolt that is superior. 
It has vertical frame stiffners welded directly above the rear axle bumpers.
M38 does not have slots in rear cross member to accept a license plate.
It was not drilled to accept the civilian draw bar
I seem to recall that the pintle plate is slightly more beefed up than civilian.

M38 Mike...... help me out here,  surely I missed something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 8:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 8:54pm
Yeah That's a pretty good video. 
I stand corrected I previous mentioned the tie downs but called them lift lugs.
And thought that the top front lift lugs were for recovery hooks.

I now recall a couple other differences. 
The rear M38 crossmember has extra holes for the bumperettes.
And the M38 shocks are held on with nuts and not with cotter pins.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 9:24pm
This has the makings of a good build thread . .  but in case we all get to wheel together someday . . . how do we pronounce "Targhee"?  LOL   
It might be obvious,  but who knows if any of those letters are silent. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 9:55pm
The "h" is silent.  Accent on the first syllable, TAR'-gee (hard "G").  I lived in Idaho Falls for the last half of 1974 while in the Navy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

This has the makings of a good build thread . .  but in case we all get to wheel together someday . . . how do we pronounce "Targhee"?  LOL   
It might be obvious,  but who knows if any of those letters are silent. Smile

Fair question! Glad you asked. Ol' Unreliable is correct! 
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

The "h" is silent.  Accent on the first syllable, TAR'-gee (hard "G").  I lived in Idaho Falls for the last half of 1974 while in the Navy. 

You sir are correct. Not bad for a Navy guy. ;)

Jack B. U. S. Coast Guard '71-75 :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug. 2018 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

Don't start building this till you have a complete plan that entails at least the basics concerning the various assemblies.

Yes. And I would add to that, "until I have all the pieces I want".

My garage space is limited and I don't have the option of leaving things spread out while I hunt for parts. Winter in Idaho comes quickly and my wife is rather of fond of having her car in the garage.  

In addition to being set on having a good NT Dana 30 and Dana 44, I'm beginning to have second thought about my frames.  I actually have two GPW frames with good titles, one is exceptional, the other needs work. But you've got me thinking that maybe I should keep looking for a solid 2a or 3a frame before I start taking things apart. 

I actually have a good 3a frame too, but it's under one of my favorite old Jeeps and I really hate to take it apart.  My wife has vetoed that idea as well. 

I'm talking with the guy with that Commando Dana 30, but I haven't seen it yet so I'm not sure it's the one. 

But, I can get started on rebuilding a trans and transfer. 

I have 3 L134's, 2 run and one is on the engine stand and looks promising. 

My schedule is still Fall '19, so I'm not feeling too much pressure yet. 


Edited by jbjeeps - 15 Aug. 2018 at 11:34pm
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug. 2018 at 11:09am


Decisions! Decisions! Decisions!

Here are the two options so far.  I started out thinking I would use the battered old '43 GPW in the top photo, then moved on to considering the '45 GPW with the repro body.  I have good titles for both of them. But now I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't look for a good 2A or 3A to start with instead. 

In the meantime I'm working on this L134 and it looks like it's going to be a runner. That's an F script trans and transfer sitting on the floor. Pretty rusty inside but they could be saved. I had the engine, trans and transfer combo on display at a local museum for a few years, hence the nice paint.




Edited by jbjeeps - 16 Aug. 2018 at 11:17am
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
Instagram: old_money_2a

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug. 2018 at 11:20am
MB GPW parts are do-able but certainly not the best for a crawler build. 
Your GPW's may be worth more to someone who wants to keep their military heritage intact.

Yes L /F-134's  can make very good crawler engines. 
Just build them back to standard specs and perhaps include a high compression head.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug. 2018 at 11:29am
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

MB GPW parts are do-able but certainly not the best for a crawler build. 
Your GPW's may be worth more to someone who wants to keep their military heritage intact.

Yes L /F-134's  can make very good crawler engines. 
Just build them back to standard specs and perhaps include a high compression head.


Yes, I've started thinking the same thing.  Pass the GPW's on to someone to restore. 

We've got a good local machine shop, he's done L/F heads before and will do good job putting one together.

High compression head? Can a stock head be milled down, or is there an actual high comp head?
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
Instagram: old_money_2a

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