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Targhee: a Moab/Rubicon flatfender build

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RICKG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICKG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug. 2018 at 11:34am
Looks like a solid platform Jack..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug. 2018 at 11:41am
Originally posted by RICKG RICKG wrote:

Looks like a solid platform Jack..

Thanks Rick, it really is! The frame is straight, frame horns look perfect and it has a good draw bar on the back. Body is solid, no rust through anywhere, even the tool box floor is rust free. If I can't get a title for it it'll just join the pile of stuff my kids will have to figure out what to do with when I'm gone. LOL
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug. 2018 at 1:23pm
I spoke with the VIN inspector this morning and it looks like we're going to be able to get a title for it. So it's time to start moving ahead.

The frame material looks to be 1/8" inch thick, so I'm thinking this is the later 3A style 11 gauge frame, I'm pleased with that.

I'm just a "bolt it together" guy, not a welder or fabricator.  But, I have a good friend who builds serious rock crawler vehicles.  He's an exceptional builder and is on board to help me out.  We talked last night and are putting our plan together.

First decision: springs?  I know there are about a million ways to go.  Everyone has their opinion. I read Mass2A's comments on using stock rear CJ2A springs or lifted rear springs all the way around. Extend and box in the front frame horns and adjust both spring hangers to keep the front axle in original position.  I like the way this sounds so I'm thinking that's the way I'll go on the springs. Just need to decide if they'll be stock or lifted. I'd be glad to hear some comments on that. 

Edit: I'm thinking that I'll either go with 32" Super Swamper TSL tires or 7.00 x 16 NDT.

Edit 2: We're also talking about installing taller shock towers for longer shocks to allow for the extra travel of the springs.  






Edited by jbjeeps - 27 Aug. 2018 at 1:26pm
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug. 2018 at 5:16pm
Hey Jack,
Sorry I missed you Saturday.
I'm glad you got the title thing sort of figured out.

Everything I know about offloading and jeeps I learned from Grampa's Jeep or from watching jpet and Bam Bam and others like bridog that I have been with, so take everything I say with a large grain of salt.
Jeff (jpet) has done extensive research and experimentation with springs  and lifts that will keep a flattie looking at least close to stock. In all the time we have jeeped together, through all the different things he has done and tried, I don't really remember him going anyplace that I couldn't go with my stock springs and suspension EXCEPT a sharp break over where I sometimes belly out and he makes it over. 
When you start increasing the spring travel you start to have issues with the short driveshafts that we have binding up. Jeff has gone to the CV type driveshafts and has had good luck with those.
Sometimes I see people get lifted springs which gets them up over things, but the springs end up being so stiff they get now flex out of their rig.

I really believe that one of the strengths, and at the same time weaknesses, of Grampa's Jeep is the stock spring set up. I'm pretty comfortable on off camber and very steep slopes because I know that my low center of gravity keeps me safe. At the same time, as stated above, my low belly sometimes gets me caught on things. I like the trade off. If my belly gets hung up, my friends can usually get me off with a little hand push, or sometimes a strap, but going over on your lid can kill you. Rather take a strap once in a while that break my neck.

Like I said, my experience is limited, but I sure love going places that people with 10s of thousands of dollars in their rigs think I don't belong.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug. 2018 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

Hey Jack,
Sorry I missed you Saturday.
I'm glad you got the title thing sort of figured out.

Everything I know about offloading and jeeps I learned from Grampa's Jeep or from watching jpet and Bam Bam and others like bridog that I have been with, so take everything I say with a large grain of salt.

Stan, Sorry we missed each other too.  I got out of Sunset late and beat feet for home.

Of course, you know, you, Jeff, Rick G and the others are the reason that I now find myself in this new trouble I'm in. Wink  After watching you guys on the Rubicon this summer I decided I wanted to have some of that fun.  

All of your experiences carry weight and I value those opinions. I really like what you said about low c.g. and off camber conditions. That makes good sense to me. In fact I'm not all that comfortable on steep off camber stuff so more weight down low sounds good to me. 

I rented a storage unit this afternoon so I could make some space in the garage to get started on this project.  I'm sure I'll be coming back with more questions as I get further along.

 
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1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug. 2018 at 2:02am


My wife's Tux has been moved into the storage unit and Targhee, AKA "The Red Rocker", is now in the garage.  After the VIN inspector comes by and checks it over, the tub will be coming off and we'll get started on the frame, axles, steering, etc.

As you can see, previous owners left us some great holes in the dash for a sound system. Rock on!


Edited by jbjeeps - 29 Aug. 2018 at 2:09am
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
Instagram: old_money_2a

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unkamonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug. 2018 at 4:03am
I'm sorry to say this but a lot of the people you deal with at the DMV are just idiots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nivrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug. 2018 at 11:44pm
Jack,
First, congrats on a nice project, and a very cool Tux!
Now onto the project.
You queried about whether springs should be considered first. You didn't mention (or maybe I missed it) whether you were going to bare frame and building up from there. If it were me, I would thoroughly check the frame first for any cracks, particularly around the crossmember, the front frame horns and all spring perches. But before any of that, if you're considering anything other than stock springs the very first thing I would do is take a marker and a plumb line and plumb your leaf spring bolts that hold the leaves together. This is particularly important for the rear springs. Plumb your line and mark the frame as a reference point in the event you change springs to a different length other than stock. The rear is critical because if you don't get the spring in the perfect position your tire is not going to center up in the wheel well, particularly during full compression as the axle will move rearward just a tad. Its not as critical in the front since the front fender is open in the front. Once you've done that then you can inspect for frame cracks and repair as needed.
You will want to know your stock spring lengths, and the distance center to center of your spring mounts.
I refer to the spring mounts as the pivot end and the shackle end.
You mentioned running rears on both ends. Consider that the rear springs are meant to carry more weight so they generally have more leaves. You might consider removing some leaves for the front if you decide to do that otherwise your front is going to be really stiff.
Ill stop for now; this should give you enough to think about for the moment.
Hope this is helpful,
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug. 2018 at 12:58am
Originally posted by nivrat nivrat wrote:

Jack,
First, congrats on a nice project, and a very cool Tux!
Now onto the project.

Mike, thanks once again for your good comments. Very helpful. 

I talked with the vin inspector again today, he'll be here next week, sounds like things will go smoothly.

I actually just got back to the house a little while ago.  Had a good skull session with the friend who will be helping me on this build.  You and he are thinking a lot alike, we covered the same kinds of things you mentioned: clean and check frame, keep axles centered in stock position, etc. He likes the idea of using stock (no lift) rear springs on all 4 corners and also suggested taking out a leaf or two up front. Or maybe see if we could get the local spring shop to build a set of stock length springs with a softer spring rate combined with some slightly longer than stock shock absorbers for extra spring travel. 

He's accustomed to building full on rock crawlers, I'm accustomed to simply bolting stock stuff together. We've both agreed we need to meet somewhere in the middle. I think this build is going to be a blast. 
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
Instagram: old_money_2a

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug. 2018 at 7:08am
Jack, seeing your garage with all the stuff I like in it, makes me happy for you. As to crawling rocks with you, I will be glad to,  right up to the point of smashing and bending things so they need fixing and replacing before the next run. I'm tired of having to go back and fix stuff again. I too, have closely followed Stan and Jpet and I can tell you, those two are fun to watch. They and the Quassy 8's go places I never would have thought possible. I've modified my '48 CJ2A with front and rear lockrights, Rancho 1.5 inch lift 2 leaf springs, Koenig PTO winch, 11 inch Willys pickup brakes, Terra Flex low 18 gear set, and a Bruce approved 6 volt bull horn--LOL I can also air down or up now.  It can now go slow up or down hill with fantastic traction, stop on a dime, and do much more than a stock Willys, but still looks stock like Grampa's Jeep. I love it as my trail Jeep. 

Add the Black Hills Run to your schedule in the future. You can do both kinds of Jeeping here during the same week if desired. 

You can build your Jeep to do what you desire. Mild to wild. Blueberry, Bridog's Jeep , makes all types of Jeeping look easy. That family of Jeepers can guide you in your build and help advise you so you get it right the first time. All you have to do is decide where you want to end up at in ability. I've not met anyone in this arena that isn't a kind, patient , friend. Great bunch. Remember----We Have Miles To Jeep Before We Sleep! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug. 2018 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Oilleaker1 Oilleaker1 wrote:

Jack, seeing your garage with all the stuff I like in it, makes me happy for you. As to crawling rocks with you, I will be glad to,  right up to the point of smashing and bending things so they need fixing and replacing before the next run. I'm tired of having to go back and fix stuff again.

John, yes, my garage has always been my little museum, the place I enjoy going out to work in or just sit and think great thoughts. And, I have to say, I am married to a wonderful woman who says "yes" to almost all of the crazy things I want to do.  And so she has embraced this rock crawler build and given it her blessing.  However, as she and I have talked about it, she has said the same things you've said here. "You mean you're going to build it up just to take it out and crash it? That's crazy!".  So out of respect and appreciation for her support I may have to approach this rock crawling stuff with some level of caution.  But I will definitely be out there and look forward to joining you and the others.  Black Hills sounds good.  I drove through there in the MG one beautiful fall day 47 years ago next month when the MG was shiny and new and I was on my way from duty station in NYC to duty station in L.A. I've enjoyed that area ever since.

The build has always been a big part of the fun for me.  I like the list of things you've done to yours.  Sounds a lot like what I've been thinking, somewhere between mild and wild. 

I've appreciated all the good comments and suggestions from the folks here and look forward to being out there with you and the others.   

Jack 




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1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug. 2018 at 11:04pm
Made a little progress tonight.  Brought this home. R&P and axles turn. 


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1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep. 2018 at 12:08pm
Mission Creep Has Begun!

I'm a simple guy and when I get into a project I tend to look for easy, low tech, inexpensive ways to do things.

The friend who is helping me is a knowledgeable and talented builder.  He is quickly pushing me out of my comfort zone as we consider the options for this little Jeep. 

Budget is always a concern and will be the final limiting factor.  But I really like his ideas.  

I'm going to be listing some things for sale to help fund all this. 

Stay tuned. 


1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
Instagram: old_money_2a

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep. 2018 at 10:56pm
Dana 30 rebuild video series

I went looking for info on rebuilding the Dana 30 I brought home last night and found these.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep. 2018 at 11:35am
Tires: thinking outside the box

These look interesting to me. Definitely not stock appearance, but maybe good performance.

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1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep. 2018 at 1:01pm
Targhee has a new VIN!

Idaho state inspector just left.  Good guy! He assigned a new VIN. I showed him all the evidence that it is a 1948 CJ2A. He was familiar with old Jeeps and agreed with me so the new title, in my name, identifies it as a 1948 CJ2A.  

I'm stoked! 

Body is coming off and frame work will now begin. 
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
Instagram: old_money_2a

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICKG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep. 2018 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by jbjeeps jbjeeps wrote:

Targhee has a new VIN!

Idaho state inspector just left.  Good guy! 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbjeeps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep. 2018 at 1:39pm
[/QUOTE]
 
Buy that man a beer!Beer
[/QUOTE]

Roger that!
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 Mk III Tuxedo Park (Hers)
1948 CJ2A "Targhee" (Under construction: looking forward to the Rubicon and Moab)
Instagram: old_money_2a

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