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11" Brake Upgrade - Tips and Lessons Learned?

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jeeper50 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 5:29am
Originally posted by Nothing Special Nothing Special wrote:

Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

I used 4 front axle 11" brake backing plates with correct size wheel cylinders in rear axle and still use my stock ebrake 'cause it works good and holds 4 wheels from rolling when on a hill when required instead of just the rear wheels. 
 
Even just rear wheel ebrakes will hold the front wheels from rolling when in 4WD.  
 

 Im talking when you have the clutch pushed to the floor during a restart on a steep hill
'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 7:43am
Originally posted by shulls1stcj2a shulls1stcj2a wrote:

Ok so here is a list everything i used to swap my brakes:
Backing plates off ford bronco front for all 4 corners
Brakes : 1968-72 ford bronco 11"
PART #
282r       brake shoes front & rear
33206    front wheel cyl  1 1/8" bore
33207    front Wheel cyl 
H2540    brake adjuster front & rear
H2541    Brake adjuster  front & rear
H7137    spring kit front & rear
8753       brake drum front and rear off a 1970 jeep j pickup 
33636     Rear wheel cyl 1" bore 1978 ford ltd 11" brakes. 
610-032.1 Wheel studs  dorman brand
I used a 5/8 Bosch hb063 bi metal hole to remove swedge on wheel studs, I had to use 2 qty to get thru 2 wheels.
I used s brake lines with guards just had to carefully bend lines to work.
I will try to post some pictures in the next few days. Hope this helps some one  
Steve
Ca.





Are those NAPA numbers or something else? Thanks
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shulls1stcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 9:26am
Napa should be able to cross those part #s. They are pretty standard #s in the parts industry, I've  been selling parts since 1990.  I got everything from AutoZone because that's the store I manage, plus discount.  
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shulls1stcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 9:39am
Here are a couple of pics of the s lines
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shulls1stcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 9:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 10:19am
Thanks Steve.  The parts list and photos really help.  I like the wheel cylinders with the brake line port angled.  Seems like that makes it easier to get the S lines to work.  I've read elsewhere about using a hole saw for the studs.  I have a 20 ton press to push them out after cutting the swage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 10:25am
Just thinking out load here....  
I've looked at kits offered by Willys Jeep Parts, Woodys 4x4, The Jeep Guy and Herm the OD guy.  It seems Willys Jeep Parts offers the most complete (and expensive) kit, but oddly its with non-self adjusting brakes.  The others all offer self-adjusting with varying degrees of kit completeness. When I say completeness, I'm referring to the extra parts needed like hoses, mounting bolts, seals, longer studs etc. It would be nice to buy a kit that is really all complete.  But then again, its not that hard to buy the other things as needed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 11:07am
Jeep used "Z" tubes on all CJ wheel cylinders having angle ports. 
All CJ factory 10" Wagner or 11" Bendix brakes used "Z" tubes.
I find the "Z" tubes to be much easier to align and install than the the earlier "S" tubes.

Poorly formed "S" tubes can be a real challenge (tight fit) especially when the cylinder ports are not angled.



Edited by oldtime - 02 Mar. 2018 at 11:12am
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelyard Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 11:15am

Someone already did mine. I was surprised to find it since nothing else appears to have been modified, other than the alternator.

Whoever did it used flexible lines and retained the original master cylinder.
 
I believe someone on the list identified it as early '70's CJ
 
Micah
 
 
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1947 CJ2A, Body & Frame: 106327, Engine: J109205, Tub and Tailgate: 97077. Originally Luzon Red

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

I used 4 front axle 11" brake backing plates with correct size wheel cylinders in rear axle and still use my stock ebrake 'cause it works good and holds 4 wheels from rolling when on a hill when required instead of just the rear wheels. 
Originally posted by Nothing Special Nothing Special wrote:

Even just rear wheel ebrakes will hold the front wheels from rolling when in 4WD.
Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

Im talking when you have the clutch pushed to the floor during a restart on a steep hill
 
Are you saying that the rear wheel e-brakes aren't strong enough to hold it but the driveline e-brake is?  If so, that's what I was speaking to in my second paragraph (that you didn't include in your quote), that with the benefit of the axle gears the driveline e-brake might hold stronger.  That's not related to holding all 4 wheels (the driveline brake has that same advantage whether the Jeep's in 4WD or not), but it could be an advantage of keeping the driveline e-brake.
 
I thought you were saying that holding all 4 wheels from turning was important when just braking the rear tires would result in them sliding down the hill (assuming the brakes were strong enough to not let the tire roll).  And rear wheel e-brakes will do that too (assuming the Jeep's in 4WD).  But if that's not what you meant, then sorry I misinterpreted.
Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1947-cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 1:15pm
It seem a little funny that the pictures shown have more room between the backing plate and hose
connection and that the bleeder isn't closer to the hose connection too. Are these 10" upgrades or
11"? I tried to use one of those z-tubes and there was no way it was going to work, I had to end
up putting a 90 degree bend right off the hose to clear the backing plate and a loop to connect to
wheel cylinder. But I was using the older style 11" plates and drums off a willys truck.
RICH

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 5:09pm
The "Z" tubes were never intended to be used with the large hose guards that are mounted on the knuckle bearing cap
They used a different bracket that is mounted in place of the early hose guards.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Cline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2018 at 6:23am
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

The "Z" tubes were never intended to be used with the large hose guards that are mounted on the knuckle bearing cap
They used a different bracket that is mounted in place of the early hose guards.
So I better remove the Z lines off my 11 inch set up since they were not intended  for the way I have them . But they work great. What do I need to do differently Oldtime?
"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2018 at 6:48am
Originally posted by Rick Cline Rick Cline wrote:

Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

The "Z" tubes were never intended to be used with the large hose guards that are mounted on the knuckle bearing cap
They used a different bracket that is mounted in place of the early hose guards.
So I better remove the Z lines off my 11 inch set up since they were not intended  for the way I have them . But they work great. What do I need to do differently Oldtime?

Rick, I hope you put a cotter pin in your tie rods that connect to the knuckle arms!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICKG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2018 at 10:29am
Originally posted by Rick Cline Rick Cline wrote:

Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

The "Z" tubes were never intended to be used with the large hose guards that are mounted on the knuckle bearing cap
They used a different bracket that is mounted in place of the early hose guards.
So I better remove the Z lines off my 11 inch set up since they were not intended  for the way I have them . But they work great. What do I need to do differently Oldtime?
 
X2?? They fit right in and work great..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2018 at 11:19am
Quote  What do I need to do differently Oldtime?
You definitely need to get permission from Kaiser Jeep Corporation. Ha Ha!

I expect that good brake tube  fit depends on various concerns.

1) The type of wheel cylinders being used are either straight ported  or they are ported at 45* angle.
2) Some wheel cylinders accept 1/8" flare nut style tube fittings while other wheel cylinder ports are fitted direct to the hoses.
3) Two types of Jeep bolt on" hose brackets can be used. 
The early guard type that was standard with "S" tubes and short hoses from 1945 CJ -1959.
The guards were only used with the short hose configurations.
Long hose configurations never used hose guards.
From 1959 CJ-1971 Neither "S" nor "Z" tubes were required because longer frame mounted hoses attached direct to wheel cylinders.
The "Z" tubes were only original for 1966-1971 CJ's having Dauntless 225 and 10" Wagner Brakes.
Those 10" Wagner wheel cylinders required 1/8" flare nut fitting. 
The long V-6 Jeep hoses did not fit direct to the wheel cylinders.
Otherwise the 10" Wagner hoses were long and so they attached direct to the frame.
So a special hose bracket was attach on top of the kingpin bearing caps.
With some re-arrangement; It's certainly possible to use the early type hose guards in place of the V-6 kingpin brackets and vice versa.




Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICKG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2018 at 11:28am
Std length short hoses, stock guards, Z-lines, 45 deg ported cyls, no problem..


Edited by RICKG - 03 Mar. 2018 at 11:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar. 2018 at 11:44am
Yeah Rick.
That's the configuration I'm using on my current  (just started) build.
It will have the 10" Wagners on it; partly because they weigh less.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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