46 CJ2A #69750 |
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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I actually didn't give it near that much thought, lol... It just seemed that given their center of gravity the natural propensity would be for them to end up ends down at every bump... so I started there, lol. Given that they are supported towards the ends rather than the middle I kinda feel I may not have thought about it enough I like the "no water" approach too
Edited by mbullism - 09 Mar. 2020 at 11:33pm |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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I took that to mean way oversized with smooth corrugations instead of sharp edged rifling ... Good on your buddy and the bore scope, it makes perfect sense in the firearms world where accuracy is king. I think it would carry over to the Willys parts world if I had to have a guarantee that a winch would pull the rated capacity without imploding ... I guess I use the unknown as a bargaining chip and accept the risk somewhat. Then there is always the honest ignorance factor... I have to allow for my winch seller using it and it pulled whatever up on his trailer... It's quite another thing to claim nickels and shoot manhole covers
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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And so it begins (again)...I hate cleaning greasy, and hate stripping paint, but love assembling clean painted parts . Good with the bad and all that-
No way to prove any of my KH 16x4.5 90/45 rims are original, but two of the three dates that I could find match the jeep at Oct '46. Oddly enough the numerous coats of paint on these two wheels have revealed an original color that appears to be Harvard red with a black pinstripe... . . . . (disclaimer: the red on my monitor is no where near as bright as when viewed on my iphone or in person. I just can't see these being the pumpkin orange color I anticipated from the Sunset Red so often found with normandy blue jeeps. The Harvard red wheels were noted as associated with Princeton Black jeeps of the same year, but nothing is absolute) So we'll chemically strip, mechanically chase the remnants and finish up with my anemic sandblaster...THEN the fun part begins . . Without any proof these red wheels were factory (or even dealer), the plan is to approximate the (ehem) "original" Sunset Red with ford vista orange, with a black pinstripe. Miles to go before we get there.
Edited by mbullism - 13 Mar. 2020 at 12:27pm |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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markcl52
Member Joined: 04 Dec. 2015 Location: Mass Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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Having done that this past fall it is time consuming nasty work. In between the spokes (whatever your call the openings) are a pain to strip and a pain to paint.
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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Ya, but the last time I looked into having someone blast them clean they wanted 25-$30 a wheel ... and this is only phase one I have another set of KH's, a set of motor wheels and two on my bantam
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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sm1986
Member Joined: 24 Mar. 2016 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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I always believed the orange on my 46 #16265 to be Autumn Yellow...thought 2012 Wrangler Orange Crush would look good...if I ever get around to it
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sm 46 CJ-2A 16265
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timcj2a
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: Chula Vista, CA. Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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Are you sure that the original color combo wasn't Picket Grey with Harvard Red wheels? I don't remember if you had determined that already. Our jeeps are just units apart in October '46 and mine has only the PO's (twice removed) application of an OD paint over the grey.
Searching the data base last year or so, I haven't found another '46 in our date range painted in this combo. This is a photo of the Omix-ADA 2A in Picket Grey/Harvard Red and it's pretty nice. I'm not sure of the accuracy of the red, but I like the grey as close. Tim
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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I've not found a reference to Picket as a '46 color...again, never say never
My take on my 2A is that it was normandy, red, yellow and then the current blue which is pretty close. It can be difficult to distinguish the original blue from the current when looking in the usual spots, but I've scratched through the layers to bare metal and found them in that order. I honestly think the last refurb was a frame off with an attempt to recall the original blue... this pic is reportedly 69750 after the yellow, before the current blue... the wheels freshly painted their current white . . ETA: my only real clues that this in fact IS my jeep are the locking hubs (for which I have the original box) the left rear tire is a dead ringer for the spare that was on it when I got it sitting on NDTs...and the white wheels. even zoomed in I haven't (yet) found another detail to key in on..."yet"
Edited by mbullism - 14 Mar. 2020 at 3:34pm |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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mbullism
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If my monitor is having the same effect on your pic, that's a ton more orange than I'm seeing in my red I've always thought sunset red was a muted pumpkin orange, and autumn yellow was a burnt yellow approaching dirty orange, the same as burnt orange is to orange...lol, if that makes ANY sense to anyone but me
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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timcj2a
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: Chula Vista, CA. Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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Here is the link to my original post on my findings.
I have viewed all the links you reference here before and have 3 different color chip boards for reference. It has been discussed here before that Willys may have started with some of the '47 model options in late '46. I present the proof above. You can't really tell in the photo (Due to the subdued lighting) of the rear of the trailer socket cover, but it's a dead on match to the chip board I'm holding, dead on. Once again, #69376 has only had two coats of paint since new; Picket Grey and OD. The lighter shade on the fire wall and other original areas had puzzled me for a long time until I saw a survivor '47 in Picket Grey and it had lightened to the same hue. Exposure to the elements obviously lightened it. Tim
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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Thanks for the refresh, T... I do recall making my post in that thread. Like I said, never say never. In your case, however, the Picket/Harvard combo is a documented color combo. The fact that you found it backed up into late '46 isn't a sticking point for me so much, it's my apparent mongrel Normandy/Harvard that gives me a little gas. I already know the harvard red wheels were probably a thing in '46 as I've found them "documented"(?) (again, never say never) for '46s in Princeton black. If I had any other support that these two wheels weren't scavenged off a '46 in black (or picket, lol) 20 years after mine rolled off the line I might even consider returning them to harvard red... but I posted the question and got largely crickets. Mine obviously are stamped 10/46, but for all I know they were meant for your jeep Basically, I don't want to force an oddball without more proof than I have- Mike
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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sm1986
Member Joined: 24 Mar. 2016 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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here's a little more reference
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sm 46 CJ-2A 16265
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sm1986
Member Joined: 24 Mar. 2016 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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note the picket gray and Luzon red chips
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sm 46 CJ-2A 16265
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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You know I love you guys, right? (I believe you, lol... there is no substitution for seeing it in person. The vagaries of any camera then uploaded to LCD is too much to make a call between two shades of yellowy orange) The reason I haven't cited that particular chip chart is it includes 47 colors, Tim's being an exception to the rule. You can't say "never" when it's staring you in the face Could my 2A have come from the line sporting harvard red wheels? Of course. Do I have enough to go on to say it's one of one? I'm a long way off there is all I'm saying. My choice of ford vista orange isn't by any testing I've done, it's just I've seen that come up multiple places as a decent approximation for sunset red, and that's an accepted color wheel for normandy. I can't prove the red wheels are correct as much as I can't prove the ford orange is "wrong". FWIW, if you guys have Fred Coldwell's "Selling the American Wonder", pages 78 and 79 are an ad from the saturday evening post, July 27,1946. In it appears a Princeton Black 2A with decidedly (harvard) red wheels (allowing for artistic license in that it's not a photo, more likely a watercolor). Of more note though, is that in the commentary for this ad Fred notes that the colors available expanded at SN 38222 to include amongst others normandy, picket, luzon and harvard. I've found Fred's documentation to be quite detailed, and not so when necessary...meaning I can't believe he would cite such a definite SN for the change without something of substance to go by. But I digress. Somebody in my jeeps past saw fit to approximate the normandy...seems only fitting I approximate the sunset without proof these red wheels are somehow original. Hell, it didn't come to me with the original engine, more than likely without the original seats and the acm on the tailgate and tub are off by two. Doesn't make it wrong, just can't prove it's right
Edited by mbullism - 14 Mar. 2020 at 7:12pm |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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timcj2a
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: Chula Vista, CA. Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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Mike,
In my original post I was offering up the possibility of another combo because I couldn't remember if you had already determined original color. But, like all things related to our jeeps it's our independent vision for what we want that should be the ultimate motivation. I like the Normandy/Sunset combo very much. I can't wait to see the wheels done up and on the 2A. Tim
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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FWIW, a chucked up bore brush makes decent work of the lions share of cleaning the slots... still some more to do though.
. . So all done this pass, front/back/ around the middle. It was decided (for me, lol) to metal prep at this stage to ward off surface rusting while the rest of the wheels catch up. I have some cosmetic repairs to make prior to blasting and final cleaning. I'm going to catch the rest up, it's just too cold in the garage to use stripper effectively, and too hot in the basement to use stripper effectively, lol. If only there was a spot I could blow hot air on this to make sure it was thoroughly dry... . . |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4783 |
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Oh, I know, and it's appreciated...a piece of me wants someone to say there were 25 normandy with harvard red wheel jeeps special ordered by a florist in DeMoine for deliveries, lol ETA: see, in my head I'm reading Tim's is really close to mine, and it has harvard red wheels...and I subconsciously go off on a tangent and think "my acm's are off by two, the most plausible reason is that Willys painted 10/15/20/whatever acm bodies at a time, one color...and while putting tailgates with tubs to hit the line sometimes they got swapped"...then I think, well, they didn't paint 4 or 5 wheels at a time, then switch colors for the next jeep...then I'm thinking princeton black and picket jeeps were coming off the line the same time as mine, why couldn't mine have been the first of a run of normandy right after a run of ten picket? Is there a picket gray willys running around with sunset red wheels?... and how would I prove it?...im having several conversations with myself at the same time...the willys voices in my head
Edited by mbullism - 14 Mar. 2020 at 8:15pm |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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