Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Tech Questions and Answers
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 48 2A running rough
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

48 2A running rough

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Kenw View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb. 2021
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 48 2A running rough
    Posted: 03 May 2021 at 6:54pm
Hello,
I've been lurking/learning for the last 2 years since buying the Jeep.  

-The ID tag on the firewall is unreadable and the frame has some added plates welded on the front end so I'm not completely sure what I have.
-I have the service manual, but I'm not a professional mechanic, so please pardon any mis-steps.  To up the difficulty factor, I keep her at my cabin a couple hours away, where internet/phone access is really limited. 
-In between, I decided to try on a hernia. Decided I liked it, LOL so got a hernia. Had surgery. All this fun interrupted my diagnosing, mechanic-ing, and Jeep driving for months.
-I have a buddy/technical adviser up there who has a MB and a lot of Willy's experience.  
-I've been buying parts fairly equally between Walck's, and Kaiser-Willys fwiw.

The Jeep was running very well when I purchased it.  After a few months, since it had been flawless, I decided to do a tune up. Changed oil, replaced plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, points, condenser, coil, (and deleted the external ballast resister) and checked valve settings. 

Running great after all that for weeks/months, then suddenly while on a drive it started to buck and miss.  Barely made it the last couple miles home.  

It's been a long slow process of trying to diagnose, order parts, replace, start over. The long story (I'll detail later) is that I've replaced almost everything but the starter.  The short story is nothing has changed.  The first start after painting and putting the engine all back together, it ran great for about 30 minutes, but the next morning much the same.  Times it would start and idle, rev but not under any load.  This weekend, went back to basics, checking static timing, oil pump configuration, etc and the stars aligned and it started right up, running great, idles, revs, doing well under load etc.  It ran great, for 40-45 minutes around the yard, over to the neighbor's, up and down the road, then misfiring, bucking and barely running.  

The longer part of the story, if you got this far:
-I could not get the timing straight. I went through the various flow charts on line, and in the service manual.  Thought I had lost my mind.  Took longer than it should to come to the conclusion that the flywheel was not installed correctly at some point. The old guy I bought the Jeep from swore it was original, untouched. Swore he had removed the original spark plugs even. Nope. Head off, pistons 30 over.... Clearly from the ease of disassembly a fairly recent rebuild. Flywheel installed 180 degrees off, cam gear installed 180 degrees off, oil pump was no help. So off we go.

-Head off and checked at the machinist.
-Valves all seem to be moving correctly so the cam was not removed.
-New timing gears and chain
-New rings. Suggested by machinist since cylinder #2's combustion chamber was spotless clean compared to the others.
-Installed flywheel correctly
-Installed oil pump correctly
-New battery, cables, ground cable, ignition switch.
-Replaced distributer advance springs. 
-New carburetor, fuel lines, fuel pump. PO replaced fuel tank with a plastic one. I'll probably replace it.
-Replaced all the (electric tape covered) wires.  I did these piece meal vs buying a new harness.    
I haven't replaced the wires to and from the dimmer switch to the headlights. They work, but the new switch is on my bench and will get to that soon.

-New front seats and upholstery.  The PO had repurposed the back seat into a front bench seat. This may actually be important, because I am afraid that by removing the large bolt (they had welded to the inner rear fender, which was welded to the seat frame) I MAY have started the whole situation...

I've run out of answers.  What am I missing??
I'm at the point of considering replacing the condenser, and or coil, maybe points? 
Thought I'd query the smart folks here.

Ken in WI
Back to Top
Bruce W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 July 2005
Location: Northeast Colorado
Status: Online
Points: 7191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 8:06pm
  Put the old condenser back in. 
BW 
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
Back to Top
cpt logger View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Sep. 2012
Location: Western Colorad
Status: Offline
Points: 2110
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 8:20pm
After rereading this a few times, I think I understand the issue. Let me restate it for my clarification; The engine runs & "revs", (turns high RPM), yet under load has very little torque. The Jeep has a hard time moving under its own power.

Now a few questions.
1. Do I have that correct?
2. Does it run fine while cold?
3. Or it is hard to start period?
4. If it is hard to start, do the spark plugs have a bright blue spark when hot?
5. If it runs OK cold but not when hot, do the spark plugs have a bright blue spark when hot?
6. Do either the coil or the condenser get hot to the touch? Be careful on this test, we do not want 2nd degree burns on your hand.

Enough questions for now. With answers to these, diagnosis can begin.
Back to Top
smfulle View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 16 Sep. 2010
Location: Ogden, Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 5504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 8:37pm
Condenser
Stan
48 CJ2A (Grampa's Jeep)
59 Chevy 1/2 ton
Grampa's Jeep Build Thread
Back to Top
Kenw View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb. 2021
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 8:48pm
Thanks for the replies.

You know Bruce, I kept that condenser afterwards......for awhile.  It went "in the bin". 

Capt:
Not exactly;  The Jeep was running great Saturday. Idling and under load. Down the road at a breakneck speed of 40mph-ish. No problems for 30-40 minutes of driving, until there were suddenly problems. Driving down the road at 20-30mph, I could feel a little miss in the beginning, then full on running rough. Not backfiring.  Limped home again. Would idle but not well.  Adjusting timing did nothing to change this. 

It starts quickly and easily. 
I haven't touched the coil or condenser after it has been running.
It has great spark cold, but I haven't checked it hot.

At one point, I was turning the distributer, and got quite a shock.  Not sure where or what I touched, but it certainly got my attention.

Back to Top
athawk11 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Jan. 2012
Location: Arvada,Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 3897
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 8:59pm
CondenserWink
1- 1946 CJ2A   
2- 1949 CJ3A
Back to Top
Kenw View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb. 2021
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 9:36pm
I really like the condenser answer.

But...how many do you buy to be reasonably sure of finding a good one?
LOL
Back to Top
Bruce W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 July 2005
Location: Northeast Colorado
Status: Online
Points: 7191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 12:09am
  There are signs that show a bad condenser. Most old manuals show what they are and what they mean. If none of these signs are apparent, do not replace the condenser. I’ve never actually seen any of these signs. I do not replace a condenser unless I do see them. This goes back to well before we started seeing Chi-com condensers bad right out of the box. Since you’ve tossed your old “good” condenser “in the bin”, I guess you’ll have to roll the dice and buy another new one. I hear that NAPA has good ones. 
BW 
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
Back to Top
Kenw View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb. 2021
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:01am
Points and condensers are easy and inexpensive,  so I hope it's that simple.

I'm open to any and all ideas at this point, so if there's anything else I'm all ears.
Back to Top
Dutch 1960 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 11 Feb. 2019
Location: San Diego, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch 1960 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 4:08am
When it next stalls, check the fuel bowl level...
Back to Top
Kenw View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb. 2021
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 11:05am
I realized I forgot to add that to my original post.

The fuel bowl was essentially empty while it was running.  Even when it was running well.  The plastic tank outlet is on top, and I wondered whether the mechanical pump had enough suction. 

I added an electric fuel pump near the tank to experiment.  It filled the bowl, but didn't affect how the Jeep ran.

FWIW right now, the fuel pump is pushing fuel into a new fuel filter which goes into the new metal fuel lines up to the mechanical pump.  I did not try bypassing the mechanical pump.  The rubber fuel line connections seem tight, and the metal connections all have sealing tape on the threads. No obvious leaks. The filter and lines were all in place before the new carb was installed. 

Thanks Dutch, any and all suggestions are appreciated. 
Back to Top
Silent Turtle View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Dec. 2020
Location: NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silent Turtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:51am
I just had the same issue, it was the condenser.  Do you need to adjust the float in the bowl?  

After my issue, i was planning on buying a few condensers and throwing them in the tool box on jeep.  Are there any reputable brands?
Back to Top
Kenw View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb. 2021
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:43pm
I'm wondering about the carb.  I bought a new/rebuilt carb from Walcks.  I'm hoping the float etc were adjusted when it was built.  
That said, this is my second carb from them as the first had a pretty severe leak from the float bowl area.
Never say never.
At this point I'm working under the assumption that my carb problem is electrical...

I bought an Echlin condenser.  I'll install it this weekend and report back.

Thanks again.
Back to Top
Stev View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member

Joined: 27 July 2016
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Online
Points: 2094
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 1:07pm
Kenw wrote - "Down the road at a breakneck speed of 40mph-ish. No problems for 30-40 minutes of driving, until there were suddenly problems."


I had a similar issue:   The Jeep would run great for about 45 minutes or so, then it would start to miss and run really bad.  It ended up being water had condensed on the inside of the distributor cap.  Would have to take a paper towel and dry the inside of cap 3 or 4 times over the next hour of driving and it would be good to go for the rest of the season. 

Edited by Stev - Yesterday at 1:08pm
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
Back to Top
fullgarage View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 2020
Location: Celina, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fullgarage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 1:13pm
Definitely sounds like an ignition issue.  Condenser, cap and rotor are cheap and easy to change.
David - Celina,TX
1948 CJ-2a (on the road but never finished)
Back to Top
TERRY View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: BOULDER COLORADO
Status: Offline
Points: 2987
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TERRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 2:56pm
Is the coil getting hot and failing intermittently? Check for spark when it is acting up,
In my experience over75 years, intermittent problems are usually electrical, except when they're not.
BOULDER 48 2A
Back to Top
cpt logger View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Sep. 2012
Location: Western Colorad
Status: Offline
Points: 2110
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 hours 26 minutes ago at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Stev Stev wrote:

Kenw wrote - "Down the road at a breakneck speed of 40mph-ish. No problems for 30-40 minutes of driving, until there were suddenly problems."


I had a similar issue:   The Jeep would run great for about 45 minutes or so, then it would start to miss and run really bad.  It ended up being water had condensed on the inside of the distributor cap.  Would have to take a paper towel and dry the inside of cap 3 or 4 times over the next hour of driving and it would be good to go for the rest of the season. 


Bolding mine.

This is the only thing IMHO, & IME that WD-40 is good for. It usually only takes one treatment.

Now if a deep creek was forded, it may take a few more treatments than that. Trust me here, I know.
Back to Top
drm101 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Dec. 2012
Location: Clarkston, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 956
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 hours 13 minutes ago at 6:30pm
You said you removed the ballast resistor. Does the coil require it? If it does, the coil may be getting too hot. Sometimes when a coil gets too hot, it will create small gap in a winding. When it cools that gap closes and it works again. Also make sure the condenser body is properly grounded. The proper way to check a condenser is with a condenser checker tool, but you can get a rough idea using a multimeter using the ammeter setting. Attach the negative lead to the condenser body, and then touch the positive lead to the terminal. The current will quickly rise then fall off, finally acting like an open ckt. You are effectively "charging" the condenser. If current continues to flow (or blows the fuse in the meter) you know the condenser is shorted. If no current flows, it is open. 



Edited by drm101 - 21 hours 4 minutes ago at 6:39pm
Dean
'47 CJ2A "Mud Hen"
The less the Power the More the Force
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.