And so the question remains... |
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dav45_cj2a
Member Joined: 23 June 2007 Location: Reno / Sparks Nevada Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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Here is some more info from the Edwardsville Intel..
12-20-45 So from this information: The Muncie Ind (Warner Transmissions) was not supplying any transmissions to Willys Overland from: September 26th 1945 to: December 20th 1945 And Willys Overland did not start back up productions until January 2nd 1946 More to come as I find it!! Good Golly this is fun!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! David |
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dav45_cj2a
Member Joined: 23 June 2007 Location: Reno / Sparks Nevada Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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Just thought of something....
This might be one of the reason there was not a lot of 1945 models produced. AND..... Maybe why so many (me included) could be shooting in the dark here.... but....why our 45's are titled as 46's in some cases.. Just a thought.... |
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Bill Norris
Member Joined: 01 May 2006 Location: MI Status: Offline Points: 1839 |
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Sean,
Some where I have a document that states Wilson also machined the blocks.
Bill
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dav45_cj2a
Member Joined: 23 June 2007 Location: Reno / Sparks Nevada Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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Seems Spicer had problems in mid 45 as well.......
LOL I have found SO many old typo's in reading these old papers all day. Like above "Gecause" of a week-old...... LOL Edited by dav45_cj2a - 11 Sep. 2007 at 11:16pm |
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Brachus12
Member Joined: 04 Jan. 2007 Location: Upstate, SC Status: Offline Points: 738 |
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I noticed the same "J2A-12" on the gear in my spare transfer case as well. It is Serial number J104978. Has a casting number of C18-15-10-3.
Have not had a chance to crawl under Ol Bugger yet to see what is installed already.
Brachus
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47 CJ2A #101361 "Bugger"
42 GPW 75248 SPEN Trailer 62 M170 13758 http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/brachus/Willys |
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lowenuf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 29 Aug. 2006 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 9122 |
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neat reading Dave, and with those clippings, comes into play the setup i brought home today....meaning the tranny having an assembly date of December 31, 1945. and the TC having the low number representing it as a converted MB case, with a "Spicer" stamping, not a DANA stamping, and of all things, and Olive Drab bellhousing..
Bill, if memory serves me correct, your statement about Wilson aslo machinging the blocks i believe i read in Fred Coldwell's Preproduction book...low
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45 #10012
45 #10033 ACM #47 45 #10163 ACM #188 57 CJ5 Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick |
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GaryArf
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 21 July 2005 Location: Baxter MN Status: Offline Points: 3905 |
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David,
You have raised the bar on your work on the physical Jeep #231.
Now you are raising the bar on the research into why it is what it is. Your work and research is very muched appreciated and gives a light on what was happening back then. You are AWESOME.
I'll have to find the tag from my transfercase (it fell off, but I have it) maybe this will confirm some findings.
Very good work you are doing. KUDOS from the ones on the edge of our seat.
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CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500
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Lomar15
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Jan. 2006 Location: Fanny Bay, B.C. Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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This is great reading, Thanks Dave,
FYI I just burnt my dinner reading it, lol
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46 CJ2A #48777
42 MB Slat Grill 119898 Frame 51 M38 Body 42 MB #155950 Spen Trailer http://picasaweb.google.com/lomar15CJ2A |
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dav45_cj2a
Member Joined: 23 June 2007 Location: Reno / Sparks Nevada Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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Thanks everyone just trying to help where I can....
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dav45_cj2a
Member Joined: 23 June 2007 Location: Reno / Sparks Nevada Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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Nope I was wrong it does have a J in front of the 411788 SO now what lol It does have the 3/4 shaft too..... |
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Todd Paisley
Member Joined: 19 Nov. 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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I have a April 1945 casting date for the transmission for CJ2A-10012. I don't remember what the assembly date is, but I can check when I get back from Stuttgart. At least one of the CJ-2 prototypes has a April 1945 date as well. I can't remember which one (either CJ2-32 or CJ2-37). I believe that Warner cast a few extras based on W-O speculation that production would start soon. When Fred was saying the engine was assembled within 2 weeks of the casting date, he was saying this in general terms, not for the early one. The early engines were all salvage blocks (That is why all the early ones have A and/or B suffixes on them). Nice work on finding the articles on the strike Dave. How did you find these? I would love to put those articles in my early jeep documents site:Thanks.
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Todd Paisley
1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule 1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep 1944 CJ2-12 - X36 1944 CJ2-16 - X40 1945 CJ2-37 - X61 1945 CJ2A |
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Oakes
Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Falls Church VA Status: Offline Points: 730 |
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It's funny but I remember 11590 having an earlier casting date engine than 10043, maybe the term should be force back not buyback! 10043 does not have the A or B code as I remember. When I get a chance I'll confirm it. The engine is 10041. Maybe some came through before the strike!!!
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SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES, THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
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dav45_cj2a
Member Joined: 23 June 2007 Location: Reno / Sparks Nevada Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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Todd,
The site is http://www.newspaperarchive.com/ after Oakes mentioned the strike I thought hey there has got to be some info out there on this. When I found the site it tells you like a line or two of your search but not enogh to get your full answer without signing up, so I did. BEST money I have spent in years. Once I signed up I went right in and typed "Willys Overland Strike" then told it to look only in 1945 papers. Thats when I learned it was not the Willys employees that went on strike it was Spicer and Muncie Ind (Warner) that went on strike and could not supply the parts to Willys so in turn Willys had to lay people off due to no parts to assemble the jeeps. I have been thinking of this all night. I wonder just how many jeeps were sitting around partially assembled waiting for the transmissions? I wonder if they put them all the way together minus the transmissions or stopped everything.. Guess we will never know....but there is still so much to read and maybe we can find out a lot of answers..... Dave Edited by dav45_cj2a - 12 Sep. 2007 at 5:16pm |
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Todd Paisley
Member Joined: 19 Nov. 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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Thanks for the info Dave. I will have to check out that site.
There were also some other strikes by some of the other suppliers during that time that affected production. I have found some of the Deviation Permits from that era that show things being substituted to keep production going. A prime example that you can clearly see is the coil. If you look in a parts book, you can see it switching back and forth as W-O had trouble getting the key and coil assemblies.
I haven't found any orders or production numbers for the transmissions. I haven't yet decoded the J serial numbers on the transfer cases either. They seem to be all other the place. Not sure if the numbers reset when the C18-15-10 housing casting was revised over the years.
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Todd Paisley
1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule 1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep 1944 CJ2-12 - X36 1944 CJ2-16 - X40 1945 CJ2-37 - X61 1945 CJ2A |
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Bill Norris
Member Joined: 01 May 2006 Location: MI Status: Offline Points: 1839 |
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Dave,
The 1945 2As were built up until the end of December. Retitling for the next year didn't begin until 1948 when the 49 2As were retitled 48s. Bob Westerman owns the document that supports this. I have copies of documents from 1945-1947 that support the other years.
Bill
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dav45_cj2a
Member Joined: 23 June 2007 Location: Reno / Sparks Nevada Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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well my 10231 has on the title 1946 and so is a few others that I know of. I am going to try and get the tittle corrected to show 45
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Willys Motors
Member Joined: 01 Dec. 2006 Location: Jeep Central Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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2 items:
1) I also subscribed to NewspaperArchive.com, but you may want to take a closer look at the user agreement pertaining to copyright
2) for what it matters, CJ2A 10015 came equipped with a transmission dated E2345, so I would say that is May 23rd 1945 ?
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dav45_cj2a
Member Joined: 23 June 2007 Location: Reno / Sparks Nevada Status: Offline Points: 322 |
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LOL I saw the user agreement, but I didn't think of the guys here would turn me in due to trying to help out... well I hope not at least
Do you own 10015? Some info on that one would be GREAT and thank you!!! |
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