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And so the question remains...

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Todd Paisley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep. 2007 at 11:47pm
Usually copyrights include non-commercial use.    As long as you quote the source, you should be OK.  Some of these papers probably don't even exist any more...
Todd Paisley

1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule
1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep
1944 CJ2-12 - X36
1944 CJ2-16 - X40
1945 CJ2-37 - X61
1945 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep. 2007 at 2:17am
I know this post only deals with the very early 2A, and may not interest most here, but...This is VERY interesting info. David, Your giving the big boys something to chew on. The production after the war was pent-up and waiting to explode. The strikes in these days limited the production I'm sure. The market was uncertain for sure but the GI's coming home could not be stopped and the depression was a clear memory, only not going to be a part of their life....They were going to spend the economy out of it.
CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dav45_cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep. 2007 at 4:19am
Thanks Gary. I agree but even with the early 45's it could help shed light on to more years.  I for one am fascinated with all the information that I read. Its like finding pieces of a puzzle, however small they are...

GARY you said it my friend I HAVE THE BUG lol.... 
1945 #10231 and 1946 #17458
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichardD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2007 at 2:07am

I don't have very early CJ2A, but must admit that I am enjoying this thread tremendously.  I enjoy reading about the history of where and how it started, and as Dav said, "pieces of the puzzle".

I might also suggest that you can try repeating to yourself, "I am NOT a Jeep Junkie, I am NOT a Jeep Junkie, I am NOT a Jeep Junkie.....  But it won't work, Muhahahahaha.  Once bitten by the bug, there is NO going back!  Sooooo the thing to do is just accept it and keep looking for more Jeeps! LOL.
 
Be well, and keep it coming.
 
Richard
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'02 TJ X Fiancee's DD, and our Trail Rig
'65 M-416 Trailer

Live each day as if it were your last, 'cause you just never know.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dav45_cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2007 at 2:31am
Originally posted by RichardD RichardD wrote:

I don't have very early CJ2A, but must admit that I am enjoying this thread tremendously.  I enjoy reading about the history of where and how it started, and as Dav said, "pieces of the puzzle".

I might also suggest that you can try repeating to yourself, "I am NOT a Jeep Junkie, I am NOT a Jeep Junkie, I am NOT a Jeep Junkie.....  But it won't work, Muhahahahaha.  Once bitten by the bug, there is NO going back!  Sooooo the thing to do is just accept it and keep looking for more Jeeps! LOL.
 
Be well, and keep it coming.
 
Richard


LOL I will keep repeating that to myself. I for one love history, and since starting on my Cj I have am doing two things I love. Restoring of a TRUE AMERICAN CLASSIC and finding history and the reading. Its like a never ending novel for me, one that I would read over and over again. I have also belonged to many many forums over the years. This has to be the most welcome and great forum I have ever had the chance to post in. You never see little B***H wars in threads, no flamming ever time some asks a question. You guys and gals are great people.  Another thing that is addicting.................
THIS SITE!!!!!
I can't stop reading and finding old posts to find something new about......

So now I need to Say "I am not a Jeep Junkie and I am not a The CJ2A Page junkie"!!!!!LOL

Thanks Again
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2007 at 1:51pm
To me, the research is just as fun as restoring and driving my Jeep.
 
I have it pretty easy though, I have a huge collection of information in a library that is walking distance from my office when I work downtown. That is where I get most of my information. I've had more than one lunch hour get stretched to the limit getting buried in documents.
 
Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dav45_cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2007 at 2:05pm
Bill can you copy's of those documents? Pictures or pdf's?
I can start an archive just for subjects that pertain to any and all things that would of had an effect on Willys / cj stuff.

I will host the archive site..
1945 #10231 and 1946 #17458
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2007 at 2:43pm
I already have a archive site similar to this.  It is:
 
 
Bill supplied some of the documents on there.
Todd Paisley

1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule
1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep
1944 CJ2-12 - X36
1944 CJ2-16 - X40
1945 CJ2-37 - X61
1945 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep. 2007 at 2:17am
Dave,
 
    There is too much stuff and I don't have enought time right now, otherwise I would. If/when I get a chace, I will do that.
 
Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep. 2007 at 3:05am
This becomes more than part Numbers.. It becomes a part of what it was in real time back when.. the strikes, the economy, and the competition that was the after war scramble to capture a piece of after war exhuberance in the unleashed market. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep. 2007 at 4:48am
The archive that I have is not part numbers.  It is the primordial documents of that time that capture what was going on with the jeep development with the actual people involved, not just what you see in the books.  Nearly all Jeep history books can be traced back to 2 other previous works:  Rifkin's book commissioned by the Quartermaster Corps and "Hail to the Jeep" by A Wade Wells that was commissioned by Willys-Overland to show their viewpoint (which now appears to have been a cover by Willys-Overland to gather information they needed for their defense of their FTC case brought on by Bantam for "misleading" advertising during WWII.)  But what did those early books use as source documents?  The archive I have attempts to gather those source documents so people can read what they actually said, not what someone's interpretation of them is.  There is a periodical section of period news items.  An interesting one is one from 1944 where Francis Fenn (president of American Bantam) wrote that the jeep will never be a vehicle that will be useful after the war.  This was obviously sour-grapes and trying to be hurtful to Willys-Overland.
 
 
The archive was created by a few people with Bill Norris supplying some items as well.  The original source document is scanned and can be seen as it looked back then.  There is also a OCR-ed version that makes it easier to read. (especially good on xeroxed copies of small font news items where it is tough to read).
Todd Paisley

1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule
1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep
1944 CJ2-12 - X36
1944 CJ2-16 - X40
1945 CJ2-37 - X61
1945 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryArf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep. 2007 at 11:23am
It's funny you linked that particular part of your site, as I had just read it in the link you posted earlier.
  Somehow I can't help but put a Southern acsent into it as I read it. The author Francis Fenn, I'm sure bitter as to how all this played out with designing this vehicle only to have the concept stolen and left with just the scraps (trailer contract).
 The words and thoughts are accurate though, It makes one think...Somehow this "spine braking" "fuel consuming" "everything in one vehicle (that really wasn't good at any of the things they were pumped up to be) is still being produced today over 60 years later...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep. 2007 at 2:01pm

This is certainly interesting stuff. As production dates are sorted out with numbers I can help but think of what the assembly line was like back in the 40’s especially for a smaller company unlike Ford, GM, Packard etc.

 

Think we can all agree the assembly line has changed A LOT since then. All companies modified techniques to cut cost and improve production. I think we’re trying to apply what we understand about today’s automotive manufacturing to yesterday’s autos. For instance since the late 70’s early 80’s auto makers keep just enough parts on hand to produce a vehicle. As parts come in the back door autos are going out the front with little or no reserve parts on hand. With this method sequential numbers falls right in line with production.

 

I picture any auto plant in the 40’s with a warehouse of parts where they have maybe several hundred of a single item on hand at a time. It’s easy for a crate or two to get misplaced for a couple months. Then I don’t believe the guy responsible for retrieving those parts for production was too concerned about using the oldest parts first.

 



Edited by Scott R - 15 Sep. 2007 at 2:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dav45_cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep. 2007 at 2:23pm
Thanks Todd,, wow had great hours of reading last night..


Thanks Again !!! Dave
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Todd Paisley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2007 at 1:10am
I took some photos of the casting and assembly dates of CJ2A-10012's transmission:
 
 
I would be curious to see photos of the guy who has one dated E-23-45.
Todd Paisley

1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule
1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep
1944 CJ2-12 - X36
1944 CJ2-16 - X40
1945 CJ2-37 - X61
1945 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2007 at 1:51am
Todd,
 
   I just wanted to say thanks for organizing all the documentation on your website and making it available for the masses. That is something many of us can't do, or won't do.
    Speaking of 'Hail to the Jeep' did I ever remember to scan Dow's letter regarding the book? I think I wasn going to, but not sure if I did. Forgot who I did send it to.
 
Bill


Edited by Bill Norris - 16 Sep. 2007 at 1:55am
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Todd Paisley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep. 2007 at 3:17pm
Hi Bill.  No problem.  I want to think you for sharing what you found.  I don't mind hosting the information.
 
I don't think I have the Wade memo from the Dow collection.  I do have some Wade stuff that Bob found in General Lynch's papers.  What is interesting is that he found the original simple questionaire that A. Wade Wells sent out:
 
 
Some corresepondence:
 
 
What is interesting is the following:
 
 
He is saying the original manuscript for "Hail to the Jeep" was 21 chapters.  Of course the final book has 8.  It would be nice to track down that original version.
Todd Paisley

1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule
1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep
1944 CJ2-12 - X36
1944 CJ2-16 - X40
1945 CJ2-37 - X61
1945 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep. 2007 at 12:07pm
Todd,
 
Very interesting stuff. I will make a note and try to get that to you soon.
 
I think I told you before, Dow states something to the effect that someday the truth will come out about the development of the Jeep.
 
Bill
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