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cal.bar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:45pm
While I'm waiting for the cool news camera to come, does anyone have any ideas if there is something that I could have screwed up in the installation of my intake/exhaust manifolds to make that clacking noise (other than drop a screw into the carb)?

I first installed a new exhaust manifold and kept the old intake MF. I inadvertently put a new (square)gasket over the existing (square) gasket between the intake and exhaust manifold where the intake MF sits on top of the exhaust MF. THAT resulted in the intake MF cracking. But it still did not make the weird clacking noise. When I pulled them both again, and reinstalled the new intake MF WITH the new exhaust MF (only one gasket this time) and reinstalling the new exhaust gasket, it began to make the weird clacking.

Could the odd clacking sound be merely an intake (or exhaust) leak? Has anyone used Permatex ultra copper on or in addition to the standard gaskets? Perhaps a bit of insurance?

Edited by cal.bar - 03 June 2018 at 11:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 6:26am
Exhaust leaks can make some really weird sounds. It is easy enough to test for. With the engine cold & running, run your hand around the exhaust manifold where it bolts to the block & where it bolts to the intake manifold. You will feel the escaping gasses. The exhaust manifold gets fairly warm, which is why you do this test on a cold engine.

Can we assume that you did not loosely bolt the two manifolds together & then install the assembly to the block before finishing tightening the four inter-manifold bolts? Sometimes one needs to have a machine shop bolt the two manifolds together & then mill the two block mounting surfaces flat. This is especially true with two manifolds that did not come from the factory as a set.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 11:16am
Originally posted by cpt logger cpt logger wrote:

Exhaust leaks can make some really weird sounds. It is easy enough to test for. With the engine cold & running, run your hand around the exhaust manifold where it bolts to the block & where it bolts to the intake manifold. You will feel the escaping gasses. The exhaust manifold gets fairly warm, which is why you do this test on a cold engine.

Can we assume that you did not loosely bolt the two manifolds together & then install the assembly to the block before finishing tightening the four inter-manifold bolts? Sometimes one needs to have a machine shop bolt the two manifolds together & then mill the two block mounting surfaces flat. This is especially true with two manifolds that did not come from the factory as a set.


I did loosely bolt the manifolds together then install on the jeep. Then tightened all bolts. Then ran it for a while and retightened all bolts. I haven't been able to feel any leaks as of yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 3:22pm
cal.bar asked: "So... setting aside the screw for a moment, could it be a piece of carbon (from the removed manifolds for example)?"

Absolutely. Or a piece of the old gasket.

If you kill (pull a plug wire) each cylinder one at a time, if a foreign object is stuck to the top of a piston, the sound may "double up" when that one isn't firing, depending on how hard it is hitting. I know, it's hard for some to tell, but does it sound like it is knocking on every revolution, or every-other? Ten times a second, or only five?

I, personally, have never used any sealer on any intake or exhaust gaskets, except around the water holes on Chevrolet (and other) intakes. Like a lot of other things here, if it is right, modern band-aids are not required.  BW
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 3:57pm
A compression and leak down test would ID a piece of carbon or gskt stuck in a valve. I blew that gskt between the intake and exh manifolds before and it sounded like your typical exhaust leak, not what yours sounds like, but you never know...Good luck. I hope you find it and it's painless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 4:21pm
Also, if it's an exhaust leak making a "popping" sound, killing one cylinder at a time may make it stop, and help locate the leak.  BW
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 4:41pm
Yeah, I HAD the exhaust leak, that's what got me started with replacing the exhaust MF.  This doesn't sound like that.  It's too rhythmical.  Like it's happening in time with the pistons.  That's why I want to look down into the piston shafts and see what's in there (if anything).  If not, I might just work backwards and pull the exhaust and intake MF's and use some sealant with new gasket.  I can't find a leak at this point, but since the problem just started after my replacing those parts, it figure it HAS to have something to do with that side of the coin. (right?)
 
Who knows.  I will report back with camera pics from inside the pistons shafts (hopefully)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by cal.bar cal.bar wrote:

Yeah, I HAD the exhaust leak, that's what got me started with replacing the exhaust MF.  This doesn't sound like that.  It's too rhythmical.  Like it's happening in time with the pistons.  That's why I want to look down into the piston shafts and see what's in there (if anything).  If not, I might just work backwards and pull the exhaust and intake MF's and use some sealant with new gasket.  I can't find a leak at this point, but since the problem just started after my replacing those parts, it figure it HAS to have something to do with that side of the coin. (right?)
 
Who knows.  I will report back with camera pics from inside the pistons shafts (hopefully)
 


Underlining is mine.

Is a "piston shaft" also called a cylinder, or a piston bore?

I do not see why you would use a sealant when you have had good success without any. You did say that you have no leaks, Correct?

One would think that it must have something to do with what work you just did. However, if you have my kind of luck, it will be something entirely different.

I, for one, am looking forward to your pictures of the cylinders & the tops of the pistons. If this small camera will take good pictures through the spark plug holes, I will probably buy one.

Please keep us informed. Thanks, Cpt Logger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by cpt logger cpt logger wrote:

Originally posted by cal.bar cal.bar wrote:


Yeah, I HAD the exhaust leak, that's what got me started with replacing the exhaust MF.  This doesn't sound like that.  It's too rhythmical.  Like it's happening in time with the pistons.  That's why I want to look down into the piston shafts and see what's in there (if anything).  If not, I might just work backwards and pull the exhaust and intake MF's and use some sealant with new gasket.  I can't find a leak at this point, but since the problem just started after my replacing those parts, it figure it HAS to have something to do with that side of the coin. (right?)
 
Who knows.  I will report back with camera pics from inside the pistons shafts (hopefully)
 


Underlining is mine.

Is a "piston shaft" also called a cylinder, or a piston bore?

I do not see why you would use a sealant when you have had good success without any. You did say that you have no leaks, Correct?

One would think that it must have something to do with what work you just did. However, if you have my kind of luck, it will be something entirely different.

I, for one, am looking forward to your pictures of the cylinders & the tops of the pistons. If this small camera will take good pictures through the spark plug holes, I will probably buy one.

Please keep us informed. Thanks, Cpt Logger.


Thanks Capt. Yes, my jeep part vocabulary is small (but growing). Whatever it is you get to look into when you stick an endoscope down the spark plug hole, THAT is what I'll show pics of. Top of the piston and whatever else I can see. And yes, I do have the luck with this jeep. If I didn't have BAD luck, I'd have none at all. Seems like there is ALWAYS something with this thing. One stop forward, 1/2 step back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2018 at 12:36am
OK perhaps some answers!!!!

So.... I figured that since my knocking (see video of my engine in original post) started with my changing the intake exhaust manifolds, that it was likely an exhaust leak issue. Many on YouTube showed cars with knocks and the owners chasing exhaust leaks. I had been unable to find mine.
UNTIL.... I found the greatest idea on youtube. I could never track down the leaks with the engine running because of the fan and heat etc. A guy on youtube had suggested to hook up your shopvac in blow mode to the tailpipe. Then with the fender off and the engine off, blow air backwards from the tailpipe to pressurize the system. Use soapy water in a squirt bottle to start looking for leaks. GENIOUS!!! I found that it was easier to tell you where my manifold WASN't leaking than where it was. (i.e. MANY leaks) both intake AND exhaust. Tried to remount with new gaskets and Permatex on both sides of the gasket, but... failed again. Fewer leaks, but still some. SO..... third time, ONLY Permatex super copper. And.... so far the vacuum has shown NO leaks. I will reasseble the parts to morrow after the permatex cures overnight and will run it and see how it sounds. I will report back for posterity.

If you are looking for an exhaust leak, this is a FANTASTIC diagnotic technique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2018 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

Also, if it's an exhaust leak making a "popping" sound, killing one cylinder at a time may make it stop, and help locate the leak.  BW


Tried that. Same sound no matter which cylinders were running.
A bit better perhaps after nailing down all the exhaust leaks, but.... still not perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2018 at 11:54pm
OK - in an attempt to nail now this ticking/clicking sound, I am going to take another stab at adjusting the valves since most seem to think the most likely cause of the clicking is the valves clicking. So.... a question: Can I RUN the engine with the valve side cover off so I can listen to the valves and see if they are clicking? Will oil come pouring out everywhere? Just thought I'd ask before causing a super-fund site clean up.

Thanks,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 8:33am
You can run the engine with the valve cover and hopefully oil will overflow out, if not you might have weak oil pressure or volume.  There is a way of adjusting the valves so you don't have to keep on rolling the engine over.  Somebody on here probably has the method or maybe you already know this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 11:02am
There are drain holes at the base of the valves.  If clean, you won't overflow.  The valve movement will naturally splash a bit of oil around, but nothing will gush.  Place some shop towels in strategic spots and you will catch most of the splash.  You'll have to wipe off some spots here and there.



Stuff is moving pretty fast in there.  Not sure if you'll be able to find the culprit.  Be careful.  The exhaust manifold heats up pretty fast.  Don't get burned!!!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkwudz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 12:17pm
for whatever reason, i had trouble getting the valve adjustment right on the 3b.  Someone mentioned a set of  "go-no go" feeler gauges so i got some and tried it, and seemed to have better luck.    its basically a set of stepped feeler gauges
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