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Battery Power - Not Cranking Under Compression |
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jgodfrey 
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Joined: 07 Oct. 2020 Location: Shakopee MN Status: Offline Points: 663 |
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 Posted: 14 Oct. 2021 at 1:43pm |
This doesn't appear worn, but admittedly all I did was insert the started without bolting it down and tried to sense the amount of play. From other threads it sounds like that is a job that requires separation of the bell housing - because of the steel plug. |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
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Posted: 14 Oct. 2021 at 2:35pm |
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Drive the bushing and the plug out the back of the bellhousing, IF and ONLY IF the body is not on the frame. The bushing and the plug can be then installed easily from the rear. The bushing may need reamed to size it properly. Do this without installing the steel plug. After the sizing of the bushing checks out then install the plug on the back side of the bellhousing. If the body is on the frame, obviously it can't be done as easily because the plug can't be installed with any assurance that it will stay in place.
A correctly sized bushing will help support the rear section of the starter armature in the right position so that the Bendix drive engages the flywheel ring gear properly and insures that the armature doesn't drag on the field windings of the starter. Edited by SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A - 14 Oct. 2021 at 2:40pm |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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jgodfrey
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Joined: 07 Oct. 2020 Location: Shakopee MN Status: Offline Points: 663 |
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 1:53pm |
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Update - I pulled the starter and the shop that rebuilt it tested it and says it is fine. Now what? Two batteries (one Duracell and one Optima) both have the same result. Turns over once, pauses, turns over (maybe) a second time, then stops.
All cables traced, floor switch bypassed, all grounds shined and tightened. No voltage regulator because the body isn't installed yet. Old starter cranked fine on the same Duracell battery. The shop said to measure the draw, but I am not sure how do do that. My multi-meter kicked the bucket, so I could buy one, or borrow one from the parts store. (I should just buy one). But what am I looking for, and where? What would the steps be to localize this issue with a meter? Thanks
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jgodfrey
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 2:15pm |
I have a new bushing, but cannot locate a new plug. Will driving it out the back ruin it, or can it be reinstalled?
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TERRY
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 2:23pm |
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Somewhere on this page if I remember it says a penny is the correct size.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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Bruce W
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 2:49pm |
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Usually, it can be re-installed.
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 2:52pm |
I seem to recall the same thing. The bushing will have to be driven in without boogering the end that you are driving on. Clean the bore of the housing and carefully drive the bushing in from the back of the bell housing with a flat tool such as a small socket. Small taps are better than large bangs. It will need to go far enough in to leave room for the plug to be installed. The old plug will probably fit tight enough to stay in place if the dish is pounded out just slightly. If it won't stay, use a penny. Put a small amount of grease on the end of the starter shaft. DO NOT install the bushing from the front side of the bellhousing because there is a possibility of dropping something down into the bellhousing. Retrieving something from the bottom of the bellhousing is sometimes a real challenge. Hope this helps... |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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willyt
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 2:55pm |
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To measure the amp draw you need a dc voltage clampon amp meter. The average multimeter is limited to 10 amps. You will exceed 10 amps when trying to start.
I am using a cheap meter made by UNI-T, model UT210D. Rated for 200 amps, ac or dc. Found it on, where else, Amazon.
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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jgodfrey
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 9:00pm |
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Another update. I picked up the starter after it was bench tested. After talking to the shop for a while, describing my ground locations in detail, he wanted me to measure the voltage, not amps, at the top of the starter.
I replaced the bushing in the bell housing and installed the starter, then attempted to crank it. Again it turned over once then stopped. This time I had him on the phone and he could hear it. I told him I saw 5.2 volts on the meter when it turned over, then it was fluctuating between 5.2 and 4.2 as it struggled to crank the engine. He said that is plenty to crank that engine. He said he disassembled it, checked everything, then spun it up. He said the only thing can't do is load test it. So, he's swapping it out with another newly rebuilt starter. This shop has a top notch reputation and Gary the owner is great to work with. Hopefully this is the last piece to this puzzle.
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Steelyard Blues
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 9:21pm |
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Curious, what are you now using for your starter switch? Are you using an original style floor switch? What is the condition?
Micah
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1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981 1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577 |
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jgodfrey
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 9:26pm |
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It is a brand new floor switch. In troubleshooting I bypassed it and got the same result - one revolution, then nothing.
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Michaeltru
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Posted: 15 Oct. 2021 at 11:55pm |
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Straight jump from battery to the starter gets your symptoms of one revolution then nothing?
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Mike in AZ
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jgodfrey
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Posted: 16 Oct. 2021 at 12:44am |
Yes. With a fully charged brand new battery and 5.2 volts measured at the starter.
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Oilleaker1
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Posted: 16 Oct. 2021 at 6:54am |
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Load test your battery or try a different battery to eliminate that as the problem. I learned this in high school after buying a new starter.
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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jgodfrey
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Posted: 16 Oct. 2021 at 10:03am |
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Yep. Did that. I bought a brand new Optima battery and had the exact same results.
Honestly, I'm no master mechanic, but over the years I've chased down issues with wiring harnesses, relays, and gremlins. This is so simple but so frustrating. I hope to pick up the replacement starter today. If this doesn't fix the issue I might just push this thing in the corner for a while. Not really, but I will be stuck.
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jgodfrey
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Posted: 16 Oct. 2021 at 3:20pm |
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New starter, same result.
While it initially cranked great for about 10 seconds, after the first pause on the button it went back to cranking once and stopping. I had the meter on it for the first crank of the new starter and it was 5.7 volts. Now, even though the battery says it's 100% I measure 4.2 volts at the starter when attempting to turn it over. Yet I still get 6.5 volts at the battery post. This all started when I switched from a 3A level-actuated starter to this one to make it more accurate and to line up with the holes for a floor button. I would had to create a new hole in the firewall to accommodate the level, and while I know that's common I opted for the floor switch. I changed the ring gearbfrom 127 teeth, to 94 teeth to match this starter. Obviously I had to remove the engine to do this. As you could see in another thread I had a rag in the crossover tube that I forgot about and eneded up super flooding the engine when trying to start it after reinstalling the engine. The plugs were wet and soot covered. I cleaned them up, left them out for a week so the engine could dry out, and put them back in. Thinking I solved the problem I started over. That leads me to the issue I am now so frustrated with it makes me want to walk away from this thing I'm at a loss. All grounds solid, voltage reads normal, it's getting fuel (but since it won't crank that doesn't matter). Why won't it crank when there it compression? What could have happened to make it so hard to turn with compression? And why did it crank great for a few seconds, then stop? I know these threads are all over the place, but this one is the one I'm sticking with. I need help and may end up hauling this to the shop that rebuilt the engine to see what they can figure out. Not a great solution. The body comes back from.paint this week and the snow could fly here any day. I need to get this running before the body goes on Thanks for your help and patience.
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ndnchf
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Posted: 16 Oct. 2021 at 3:26pm |
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Try pulling the plugs and see how it cranks with no compression. That could help narrow it down.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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jgodfrey
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Posted: 16 Oct. 2021 at 3:38pm |
That was one of the first things I tried. I've done it at least 4 times now. Each time it cranks normally. As soon as I put the plugs in, it won't crank. I even pulled the plugs and put my hand over the carburetor and got the same result. It stopped immediately.
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A wrote: