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Best 3B71-1 rear main seal |
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willyt 
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 Topic: Best 3B71-1 rear main sealPosted: 25 Apr. 2019 at 10:18pm |
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Working on my ‘52 Cj-3A w/ L-134 engine. The rear main bearing has a very proud leak.
I have replaced the Victor 49650 2 piece seal with the Best 3B71-1 lip seal. Still have a very proud leak. The sketch on the new seal bag showing direction of installation is very vague. I hope I have installed it in the correct orientation. I am hoping someone may have a picture of their installation.The seal sits entirely within the seals groove so it can be installed backwards. If no pics maybe a sketch of your installation. Have some of you experienced any problem with this seal? I am aware of journal size limitations. No need to discuss rope seals at this time. Thanks. Are there other lip seals you would recommend?
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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Unkamonkey
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Joined: 23 Mar. 2016 Location: Greeley CO Status: Offline Points: 2093 |
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Posted: 25 Apr. 2019 at 10:26pm |
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Good luck. We changed one out 4 times, Still leaked. I fixed it by putting in a V6.
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uncamonkey
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willyt
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Posted: 25 Apr. 2019 at 10:36pm |
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I can tell you right now ...... that ain’t gonna happen. But thanks for the comment anyway.
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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Bufordjeep
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Posted: 25 Apr. 2019 at 11:09pm |
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When you replaced the two cylindrical shaped rod seals were they flat with the block or ~1/4" proud below?
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willyt
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 1:28am |
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Bufordjeep the rods extended approx. 1/4” from the engine. And they were lightly coated with rtv. Next time I will use a little more sealant. And will go with #2 Permatex. Thanks for the help.
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4184 |
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 1:46am |
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Seal can't do its job if the crankshaft is bad in that area.
Most crankshaft grinders don't touch up the seal face. It takes a special narrow wheel to get in there to it.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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willyt
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 3:32am |
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I’ve only had the Jeep for less than a year and do not know it’s history. I have no idea if this is the original crank or not, how many times the engine has been built, or if it has been built. All I can go on is to go with what I have.
With the engine in the Jeep and with the rear bearing block removed can you get an accurate measurement of the crank’s rear bearing journal? I have no problem speaking with vendors about their products. But, they are in the business of making money and of course the product they offer is the best. So how do you determine which product is the best.... go to the consumer....you guys and these forums. You know what works for you and your Jeep. And that’s what I’m doing. |
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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willyt
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 12:26pm |
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Unkamonkey so far you are the only one mentioning replacing a seal. Do you remember what seal you were using?
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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smfulle
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 2:58pm |
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Some discussion recently on this subject in this thread.
Personally it is beyond my skill level to get my rig to stop leaking. If I can slow it down a little, I just live with it. Here's the rear main discussion thread: |
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willyt
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 3:11pm |
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Stan thank you for the reply. Yes I have read that post a couple of times and links therein. Makes my pore old head spin, a lot of info in there.
I am still curious to know what other good seals are out there. I know about the "bad" Victor seals. And, yes, I too would settle for a slow drip. LOL
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4184 |
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 3:22pm |
Exact diameter is generally not the concern. Roughness or smoothness of the journal seal surface is your main interest. The journal to seal faces are often rough after 50 or so years. Like I say even "IF" the crank was turned at some point the crankshaft grinders seldom reface the seal journal unless they are specifically asked to do so. After 50 or so years the journal seal face may or may not be smooth enough to properly seal properly. Then after that there is the addition concern of proper seal fitment, meaning the diameters.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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willyt
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 4:28pm |
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Thanks for your explanation oldtime. That makes sense. The concern is for the seal portion of the shaft and not the crank bearing diameter.
Would you have any advice, if possible, on how to clean the seal groove with the engine still installed? Maybe using a sneaky pete to pull a piece of emery cloth across the top of the shaft?
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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Stev
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 5:21pm |
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willlyt,
Other thoughts - In my experience it is very difficult or impossible to install the seal so it will not leak while the engine is installed and I am laying on the ground under it. I have had better luck if I pull the engine and invert it - clean everything, inspect everything and use RTV. It takes about the same mount of time and the chances of fixing the problem go up when you pull the engine. I have used both types of seal - the rope seal and the modern seals both will leak. Sometimes they leak after being installed and then stop leaking after being driven. If the T90 does not have a front sealed bearing is can also be a contributor to the mess.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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willyt
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 5:39pm |
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Stev I have no idea if the t-90 front bearing is sealed or not.
I sure wish I could remove the engine but at this point in time I do not have the facilities for the task. I may have to start looking for an aluminum portable a-frame. We had some neat ones at work for small tonnage compressors and motors.
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4184 |
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 10:51pm |
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"IF" the seal portion of the journal is scored then no amount of effort short of removing the crankshaft can fix the problem.
"IF" the journal seal face is wavy then installing a rope type seal is certainly your best bet otherwise a properly fitting neoprene seal is better. The brand of the neoprene seal makes no difference so long as it is properly sized to fit the journal. None of that means anything "IF" it is actually a transmission leak. You can estimate engine leak vs transmission leak via leaking lubricant viscosity. You can tell for sure only by looking up inside the bellhousing to see from where the leak emanates.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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willyt
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Sponsor Member Joined: 31 July 2018 Location: Seneca,SC Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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Posted: 26 Apr. 2019 at 11:34pm |
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This afternoon I removed the bearing housing to see if I could find a problem. First was to be sure both halves were installed correctly and they were. Kind of disappointed because I was looking for an easy fix. The bottom half looked good, not so for the upper half. I had nicked a spot on outside rim about 3/16” long, right down to the steel. Lesson learned. I went to fast and didn’t massage it in. Afterwards I practiced with the undamaged half, kind of getting the feel for it.
Ordered a new seal and will give it a go next week. I sure appreciate all the help and comments from all of you. I have learned about all I want to on rear main seals. LOL
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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Bufordjeep
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2009 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 506 |
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Posted: 27 Apr. 2019 at 5:07am |
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Willyt - sounds like you're the work with the engine in place?
Did you use a 'sneaky Pete' to pull the top half out? Curious how you did that?
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willyt
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Posted: 27 Apr. 2019 at 1:30pm |
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Yep..... laying flat on my back. doing it that way you get close and personal with the job. And it's a pita.
I was lucky I guess. The jeep had a Victor fabric covered seal, I don't know if it's called a lip seal but definitely not a rope seal. I had on hand a "sneaky pete" but did not have to use it. The bearing block was the most difficult to remove. I reinstall a couple of the oil pan bolts for something to grip, then a hard plastic hammer to tap the housing and then a gasket scraper to lightly pry between the engine plate and housing. It eventually loosened up and dropped out. Then I used a small wooden dowel to drive the old seal out, once it broke loose only hand pressure was necessary to get it out. Also I loosen the other two bearing caps, but not to much. Clean up was a pain, especially the oil strainer, lots of gunk in there. If you go back with a rubber seal be careful, the rubber is real soft. |
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1952 CJ3A (Lil'Green)
early M38A1(Ole Green) 1970 Jeepster Commando |
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