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Better Brake Shoes

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3A Steve View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Oct. 2017 at 6:44pm
After being encouraged by my mechanic to try better brake shoes before going to 11"  brakes, I purchased 8 brake shoes from Ron Fitzpatrick (NOS/without linings). Have just sent them to Rochester Clutch and Brake to have "grippier" linings applied. Very interested to see if this makes a sufficient improvement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nobodyjeff5888 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec. 2017 at 7:39pm
would love to hear what the outcome is
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3A Steve View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3A Steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec. 2017 at 8:02pm
I have hesitated to add to my post. My front wheel cylinders were frozen. The back ones were leaking. Surprised I could stop at all. All in all, yes the new linings work quite well. But with what I am comparing them to I really can't say. If you want to try, it is Rochester Clutch and Brake. They are very nice. Do a quick job and their product looks really great. Tell them you want the same linings as the last old jeep guy wanted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nobodyjeff5888 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 1:44am
may I ask what the total price was?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 3:33am
This comment on the brakes is a very good one, years ago a friend of mine was restoring a 34 Chevrolet, it had cable brakes and Athol advised me they were perfectly ok but the key was to use softer lining, so less pedal effort gave still gave good breaking......a shorter life but by all accounts acceptable braking performance.

Now my 5 year old Mercedes C250 just went in for a service, guess what....the pads and also rotors were all changed at 70.000km as they are made softer for improved braking.!

Makes you think......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 9:54am
Better linings are a good thing if you are planning on sticking with stock 9" brakes. But there is no lining that can make up for the self energizing and mechanical advantage of swapping to modern style 11" brakes. Its just not possible. They have so much more lining material and so much more leverage your 9 inch linings would have to be made out of super glue to equal the braking effort gained by going to 11 x 2's.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3A Steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 10:19am
As to cost, it was $93.50 for the linings (to include postage) and $16 for the NOS brake shoes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nobodyjeff5888 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 10:30am
thanks. Am considering it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Mark W. Mark W. wrote:

Better linings are a good thing if you are planning on sticking with stock 9" brakes. But there is no lining that can make up for the self energizing and mechanical advantage of swapping to modern style 11" brakes. Its just not possible. They have so much more lining material and so much more leverage your 9 inch linings would have to be made out of super glue to equal the braking effort gained by going to 11 x 2's.

I've thought about this a lot. In fact I may have commented on this in another thread. I sort of remember something about it.

Anyway, there is no argument that bigger brakes work better, and that disc brakes work ever better than that. But when I step on the middle pedal, my 9 inch, single piston master cylinder brakes bring me to a complete, straight stop, and in a panic situation, they will lock up all 4 wheels. I do occasionally have to adjust the brakes to bring the pedal back up a little, and it is a bit of a pain because of the weird way that you have to adjust them, but the fact that I can do it and do it right is a small point of pride as well. 

I guess my point is, if you are not driving your jeep because it has 9 inch brakes and you're worried about stopping, well, stop worrying, get your 9 inch brakes functioning correctly, and get out there and drive. 

The softer brake linings are probably a nice brake upgrade while you stay stock, but I don't think any of these upgrades are "necessary" to have safe, functioning brakes. 

Other opinions may vary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 11:31am
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

....The softer brake linings are probably a nice brake upgrade while you stay stock, but I don't think any of these upgrades are "necessary" to have safe, functioning brakes....
X2 and well said. I'm not saying that 11' brakes or disk brakes don't stop you better, but necessary? .....

It seems like the bench mark most people use is whether or not all four brakes lock up in a panic stop .... but you don't want your brakes to lock up in a panic stop. The brakes on my wife's new Grand Cherokee don't lock up either in a panic stop so by this bench mark, Grandpa's Jeep's brakes are better than a new Grand Cherokee.

... another thing I read a lot is that someone replaces their old 9" brakes with a reconditioned set of 11" brakes and then talks about how dangerous 9" brakes are and how much better 11" brakes are ... but what if you would have just adjusted your 9" brakes?

This isn't directed to anyone or anyone's comments. This is just a general blanket statement about 9" brakes. My experience is not as much as some, but I think its enough to say that I don't know of a situation I've been in with 9" brakes where I felt like I need more braking for the situation. Can't speak for 11" drums but i will concede that disk brakes give you better resolution and feel better, but I don't personally feel like 9" brakes are "unsafe".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 11:54am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

 

It seems like the bench mark most people use is whether or not all four brakes lock up in a panic stop .... but you don't want your brakes to lock up in a panic stop. The brakes on my wife's new Grand Cherokee don't lock up either in a panic stop so by this bench mark, Grandpa's Jeep's brakes are better than a new Grand Cherokee.
 

Back in the olden days .... our drivers ed teacher told us to pump the brake pedal to maintain some measure of control during a hard stop. Your wife's Fiat Jeep does this automatically. 

I''m getting into the "grumpy old fart" arena here now, but they have made the modern machines so easy to operate that they are almost like a golf cart. Right pedal go, left pedal slow/stop and the machine itself does everything else for you. What fun is that?

I suppose getting there faster and safer and more comfortable is a little bit of a plus, but not near a much fun. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 11:59am
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

....I''m getting into the "grumpy old fart" arena here now, but they have made the modern machines so easy to operate that they are almost like a golf cart. ....
Yup, her jeep also turns itself off at a stop light and starts back up when you let off the brake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 1:06pm
the main reason I upgraded to the 11"ers was to not have to wonder or worry if the brakes will stop me before I plow into that $65K vehicle in traffic on a city street panic or not. But I can see your point about keeping the 9"ers adjusted correctly...just my $.02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 1:15pm
The 9" work fine, bigger is better, discs are better, power assisted is better....but what it came with works very well.

My aim is to stick with stock and drive accordingly, I have no real issue with upgrades but it seems every upgrade then requires another upgrade to make all the "upgrades" work together.

Stone stock and it all works together very very well.....

Just going back to my cave to have another mammoth sandwich.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

the main reason I upgraded to the 11"ers was to not have to wonder or worry if the brakes will stop me before I plow into that $65K vehicle in traffic on a city street panic or not. But I can see your point about keeping the 9"ers adjusted correctly...just my $.02

Understand. I would never say it's a bad thing to do, or wrong. I guess my point is that I don't worry about being able to stop. I know I can. 

I worry much more about the Poindexter behind me in the 65K vehicle looking at his/her dashboard information center and not actually noticing that the vehicle two cars ahead of me stopped suddenly. Of course, maybe they have self stopping option and it's not a problem, the car will stop itself before it hits me,  so it's ok for them to not pay that much attention.

More "old grumpy fart" stuff there. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 1:32pm
sounds like jeeper50, Adrian, smfulle, and jpet are on the same page on this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 1:34pm
..... now a dual reservoir,..... that's an upgrade highly worth considering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2017 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

....My experience is not as much as some, but I think its enough to say that I don't know of a situation I've been in with 9" brakes where I felt like I need more braking for the situation......

..... just thought of one



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