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Brake master cylinder problem |
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montymech 
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Joined: 18 Apr. 2012 Location: Dartford. UK Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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 Topic: Brake master cylinder problemPosted: 18 Aug. 2019 at 7:51am |
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I re piped my resto' project whilst the body was off a couple of years ago. Having reinstalled the body I discovered a tiny but persistent drip of brake fluid from the brass connector at the cylinder outlet. I bought a new connector and copper washers and I've re made the pipe ends, I've checked the filler cap and the brake light switch etc. I've pushed this problem on to the back burner in the hope that it will solve itself but now, almost ready for the road, I need to solve it. In desperation I sectioned the fitting and can see that the pipe and its seating are incompatible. All the other pipes sealed perfectly.
Is it the fitting or is it the pipe end shape? All assistance greatly appreciated.
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Ol' Unreliable
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Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2019 at 4:59am |
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Maybe that double flare needs to be turned in a bit more to match the shape of the seat in the fitting.
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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montymech
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Joined: 18 Apr. 2012 Location: Dartford. UK Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2019 at 9:49am |
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I've tried various configurations of the flare without success. If I could see what an original pipe end looked like it would help. Unfortunately the original steel pipes, which sealed well but were decaying, were disposed of on removal... such was my confidence in re piping. Having re piped 10 cars with the same equipment I didn't anticipate problems.
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Rus Curtis
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Joined: 25 Mar. 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1733 |
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2019 at 2:52pm |
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I have a suspicion but can't tell for sure from the image. You're from UK. Could your lines have the wrong flare? Where did your brake lines come from? What about the Y connector?
I think the original jeep parts should have the 45 degree. I was hesitant to attempt a double flare for the first time. After a couple practice flares, it was pretty easy. If you're flaring your lines, what type flare tool do you use? If the flare matches, it should compress and seal. I can't say if the Y connector that's leaking is not flawed. A burr or imperfection could also cause a leak even if the line is perfect. |
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Rus Curtis
Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
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montymech
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Joined: 18 Apr. 2012 Location: Dartford. UK Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2019 at 5:12pm |
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I always create my own brake lines using a professional quality tool. I've never experienced this problem before. This CJ is my tenth vehicle 'pipe up'.
From the link that you provided I conclude that I'm creating the correct pipe end: the SAE /double flare, which is typically used on american vehicles. My image of the cross sectioned brass connector reveals the seating to be an SAE flare seat. The DIN version, with which I'm most familiar, has a totally different shape. It looks as though the connector is at fault; just poorly made, another piece of imported junk. I began to wonder whether this was some obscure fitting peculiar to the Willys brand. Thank you for your assistance. Interesting. I note that the company providing the information in your link offer the flaring tool that I use....... for rental.
Edited by montymech - 19 Aug. 2019 at 5:21pm |
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srlbotanical
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Joined: 03 July 2017 Location: Saranac MI Status: Offline Points: 395 |
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2019 at 6:50pm |
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This may be a silly question, bu tare you sure your leak is coming from the line connection and not from the the "between" areas where you have your washers?
I have had real trouble with sealing that Y connector unless the copper washers are annealed properly.
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Steve
1948 CJ2A - The Good Dog 1997 TJ - The Trail Rig 2001 XJ - The kids ride |
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montymech
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Joined: 18 Apr. 2012 Location: Dartford. UK Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2019 at 9:31pm |
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Yes, quite sure the leak is from the screwed pipe connectors. I've renewed the washers, annealed the washers, spread Hylomar Blue on the washers, checked the filler cap etc. It's only ever wet around the threads and pipes, nothing higher up. I work on it, dry the area thoroughly and think I've solved it only to check a week later to find it's still leaking There's not much of a leak but it's persistent and it will be a ministry road test failure. The system has retained pressure for months and pressing the pedal gives the impression that the system is sound. I've ordered another connector from a different supplier and will up-date in a week or so.
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Rus Curtis
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Joined: 25 Mar. 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1733 |
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2019 at 9:42pm |
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Here's hoping that solves the problem!
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Rus Curtis
Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
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montymech
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Joined: 18 Apr. 2012 Location: Dartford. UK Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Posted: 25 Aug. 2019 at 10:50am |
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Problem solved. The newly supplied Y connecting piece is of far better quality then the part that I was having trouble with. The seating surfaces are properly formed and the pipe flare looks compatible:
 I remade the pipe flares with my AFT pipe tool, boxed the job up and waited..... success!
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Rus Curtis
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Posted: 25 Aug. 2019 at 3:06pm |
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Well done!
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Rus Curtis
Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
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Ol' Unreliable
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Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Posted: 27 Aug. 2019 at 4:00am |
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Success! YAY!
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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montymech
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Joined: 18 Apr. 2012 Location: Dartford. UK Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Posted: 30 Aug. 2019 at 7:09pm |
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Well it was success for a few days; I checked it regularly until I noticed a mere glint from the washer against the master cylinder. Capillary action seemed to be holding the fluid in place as it had not spread at all. Only the edge of a tissue would draw the fluid out. I did this test several days running.
On removal of the master cylinder I examined the machined end that the washer seals against and found it to be concave. A steel rule placed across the surface revealed light and the thinnest feeler at .05mm (2 thou") was not quite able to slide under. The finest of files run across the surface confirmed the concavity. I've dressed the surface and annealed the washers and have yet to refit to the vehicle. The cylinder is an expensive item over here so its worth trying to save it. Joes Motor Pool, UK: they sent me an MB when I asked for a CJ3A and now..... this. |
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Ol' Unreliable
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Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Posted: 31 Aug. 2019 at 3:17am |
That sounds like something an army unit would do.
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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montymech
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Joined: 18 Apr. 2012 Location: Dartford. UK Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Posted: 01 Sep. 2019 at 11:55am |
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I finally cracked it; bone dry this morning. 'Twas the concave machined face on the end of the master cylinder.
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Bruce W
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Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Online Points: 9652 |
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Posted: 01 Sep. 2019 at 7:51pm |
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I’m hearing more and more things lately that make me wonder if Joe’s Motor Pool and Omix-ADA have something in common.....
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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montymech
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Joined: 18 Apr. 2012 Location: Dartford. UK Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Posted: 01 Sep. 2019 at 9:05pm |
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[QUOTE=Bruce W]I’m hearing more and more things lately that make me wonder if Joe’s Motor Pool and Omix-ADA have something in common.....
The common thing is that they are 'chancers'; they have no interest in their field or their products and employ staff of the lowest caliber. We are plagued by them in every sphere in the UK noun INFORMAL•BRITISH
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Ol' Unreliable
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Posted: 09 Sep. 2019 at 4:38am |
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Sad.
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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montymech wrote: