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EJOWest View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 May 2020 at 2:17pm
On my Bucket list is to build a Vintage style flat fender restomod that I can take on the Rubicon. Over 40 years ago when I was young and dumb I took my a stock CJ6 and my friend in his stock International Scout and started in on the Rubicon trail. The CJ6 was doing fine but the Scout had lots of problems from the start and finally Broke down and we spent the rest of the trip dragging Scout back out. I vowed to go back and complete the Rubicon some day. Since my early days of off roading I have moved to restoring and driving WWII jeeps. I like to cruise the back roads and light off roading on dirt roads around home in Northern California. Most recently I've been making trips to Europe driving WWII Jeeps in Normandy, Germany, Denmark. Last summer my friends and I shipped six stock WWII Jeeps from California to France for the 75th anniversary of D-Day. We spend three weeks and put over 2000 miles on the Jeeps visiting five countries and many historical sites including Normandy, the Somme, Bastone, the Hurtgen Forest, Holland, Luxembourg, and Germany. So basically I'm a Stock G503 guy and have restored MBs and GPWs following the military specs in the manuals, so this is going to be a whole new learning curve for me. I have a rough 1945 Willys MB that I initially thought would be my base for my bucket list build but after doing some research and picking my friend's brain who went on the 2018 Vintage Willys Rubicon I'm thinking I might end up using just the body parts of the MB and use other chassis and running Gear. My Goal is to make it look close to a Military Willys MB with the necessary modifications. Here is where I am leaning towards now. 
l134 engine
T90C with Tera-low Transfer
M38 axles D25 front/D44 rear, both 5.38 with lockers 
7.5-16 NDT 
either a CJ2a, CJ3a, or even an m38 frame? (need to find one)
Rock sliders and skid plates where needed
MB Body but modify the tank well for clearance (Rotted out anyway) 
Modify or Make a tank that doesn't require stock tank well
I'm still researching what to do for the suspension, perhaps that will depend on frame I end up with.

Ernie

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2020 at 5:16pm
Hey Ernie,
Welcome aboard. Looking forward to your build.

Here’s mine.

Stan
48 CJ2A (Grampa's Jeep)
59 Chevy 1/2 ton
Grampa's Jeep Build Thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJOWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2020 at 5:26pm
Thanks Stan! That is a great Jeep you have there! I've been following you and your rig over the past few years on You Tube! Thoroughly enjoy all your videos!

Ernie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2020 at 9:57pm
Ernie
When all the covid bs is over, come on over and find a good starting point for your project. 
Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJOWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2020 at 7:31am
Sounds good. Thanks Jay!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJOWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 9:07am
Just testing how to load a photo. This is my January 44 Willys MB. Looks like I can resize it a little bigger next time.

Hmm that seems a little better.




Edited by EJOWest - 28 May 2020 at 9:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJOWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2020 at 9:24pm
After going over all my options for my bucket list build I pretty much was looking at an M38 with modified MB body and decided why not just look for an M38 for my bucket list rebuild. I found an M38 pretty much stock although most of the military accessories have since been removed and roll bar installed. I decided to go with the T90c, Tera Low Transfer case gears and now I am looking into lockers. I'd like stick with the stock D25 front and D44 Rear both 5.38. After doing some research it looks like the D25 limits me to Lock-right or Powerlocks for a D27 with an adapter kit to make it work for a D25. At this point I was kind of leaning toward Powerlocks in the rear and lock-right in the front. From what I understand the Powerlocks is the better locker but I don't know about the idea of having to use an adapter kit for the D25. I was also looking into the d44 full floating adapter kit offered by Herms.

Any suggestions pro or con Lock-right vers Powerlocks for D44 or D25? Is there a better choice for the D44 or D25? 

Thanks in advance for any advice!




Edited by EJOWest - 21 June 2020 at 9:38pm
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oldtime View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2020 at 11:04pm
That looks to be a pretty nice M38 that you found.
I’m sure not seeing much body rust from here !

I agree, the D25 and D44 are the best axles for the Go Devil.
And yes some sort of traction devices are in order.
I’m all about Powr Loks.
Every axle I own ( currently 8) are all genuine Spicer Powr Loks.

There are a few D25 Powr Loks out there but it takes a while to source one.
The D44 19 spline Powr Loks are fairly plentiful but will not fit under the rear vented carrier cover that is used on the M38.
So at a minimum you’ll need change the rear axle shafts and the carrier cover.
I see no huge benefit with Herms full float kits unless you want it to look more like an MB axle assembly or you want to run freewheeling hubs on the rear.
I got six million more comments but will hold back for now. Ha ha ha !
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 12:12am
I have a extra 25 power lock if you need it.
jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 12:13am
I have a 19 spline d-44 diff w/ power lock. I believe it's from a '60 jeep.  Not sure where in Cali you are located but you are welcome to come by here in Lincoln anytime.

Also have a d-27 from a '71

Jim


Edited by jeepsterjim - 22 June 2020 at 12:19am
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJOWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 12:34am
Thanks for the replies! 
Oldtime, So it sounds like power lock is the way to go and no real benefit to the full float kit! The m38 is amazing shape, zero rust, not even that many dents or dings, just the drilled holes but I think a lot of the holes can be accounted for for the military equipment that has been removed such as Top bow hardware etc.
Thanks Jay I'll call you this week regarding the D25 power lock!
Thanks Jim I'm in Petaluma, CA so not too far from you it looks like!

Ernie



Edited by EJOWest - 22 June 2020 at 12:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 8:48am
Just one opinion here, but I sure don’t see any huge reason for installing a full floating rear axle shaft kit beyond the ability to add freewheeling hubs.

The L134 and typical clutch plate does not supply enough torque to threaten breakage of the taper shafts.
The taper axle shaft with a single wheel bearing is not the best design but it’s not weak and should be sufficient.

Yes the m38 has a good frame being both slightly inferior and superior to my favorites which are the various CJ3 frames.
All post 1948 versions are notably better than earlier frames.

I’m sure know military worth but that M38 appears way too nice to turn it into a beater or hard usage crawler.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 8:50am
Originally posted by EJOWest EJOWest wrote:

....  Any suggestions pro or con Lock-right vers Powerlocks for D44 or D25? Is there a better choice for the D44 or D25? ....

I'll give a differing opinion.  While I've never used Powr-Loks, they are a clutch-type limited slip.  And clutch-type limited slips are my last choice for any axle.  In my experience there's no "sweet spot" for clutch-type limited slips.  Before they are tight enough to be useful they are too tight to avoid being annoying.

I've had automatic lockers in the rear axle of several vehicles used as daily drivers, rock crawlers and driving in snow.  While automatic lockers definitely have their quirks, and definitely aren't for everyone, I much prefer them in a rear axle.  I find the handling quirks easy enough to get used to, and they are much more effective than a clutch-type limited slip (unless the limited slip is set up so tight to almost be a spool).

Personally I have not had good experience with the one automatic locker I've had in a front axle.  But unless you will be driving the Jeep on snowy freeways they aren't unthinkable.  And I think for a Jeep for the Rubicon I'd go with automatic lockers front and rear (given that a selectable locker wasn't an option for the front).  Otherwise I'd probably go with a rear automatic locker and an open front.

That said, I know others would go with an automatic locker in the front and an open rear or a Powr-Lok in the rear.  And you already hear Oldtime's suggestion of a pair of Powr-Loks.  So there are lots of opinions out there, and no matter what you pick some people will think you're wrong Wink (Kidding! It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's balancing pros and cons, and people simply prefer to strike different balances.)
Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 9:24am
How true and no component can ever be superior to any other excepting for a specific function.

In my case l run Powr Loks for multiple specific reasons.
They are the original Spicer (Thornton) traction device design. 
They were originally delveoped for military use.
They work well under universal conditions both on road and off.
I am very familiar with their on and off-road manners so I fully know what to expect from them. 
They are very durable.
Can be adjustable although I prefer the standard clutch pack configurations.
Easily rebuildable.
Jeep Special Equipment Approved.
Fully automatic with no switches, so ease of operation is effortless.
Revert right back to become an open differential if you ever wear out the rebuild able and adjustable clutch packs.
Proper service information and OEM parts are readily available.

No they are not to be considered as optimum for strictly off road operations.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 10:46am
If you are going to really use this thing off-road, like on the Rubicon, install real lockers in both axles. While the Power-lock is a good limited slip, it is not in the same class as a real locker in my opinion.

My personal preference is to run an automatic front locker and a selectable rear locker. I can run most medium to medium hard trails with the rear locker off. Even hard trails like Pritchett Canyon only require brief use of the rear locker. Having the rear locker off helps prevent being 'pushed' through turns when trying to maneuver. I like the way the front locker helps 'pull' the vehicle through things especially when trying to turn and climb at the same time.

With the D44 rear you have the option to run a selectable locker fairly easy now with the 19-spline support coming from the Roxor products. You can also upgrade to a 30 spline locker with something like a full-float axle shaft conversion.

With the front D25/27 you are limited to a lock-rite pretty much. A D30 front would allow more options. A D44 front would allow a few more AND the ability to go down to 5.89 gears in the axles.




42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJOWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 10:51am
Thanks for the additional opinion Bob. This is new territory for me and I really appreciate all the input! 
At some point I just need to make a decision then will learn from experience soon enough!
Ernie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 10:52am
I have no experience with Power Locs other than observing others that I’m wheeling with who run them. My admittedly limited observations have been that Power Locs are the worst of both worlds. TheY lock when you don’t want them to and make steering difficult then when you’re in a difficult climb, they don’t lock and you can’t get up the obstacle. 
I’ve had this discussion with Power Loc proponents and they always say, “you have to set them up right.”
Lock Right automatic lockers are an easy, one time set up and then you never have to think about them again. They just work. Yes, on steep downhill slopes, or when stoped on an obstacle and trying to turn, it can be very stiff, but for me, with my limited observation on Power Locs, I would take the Lock Right all day long, every day, over the Power Loc.
As always, your milage may vary.
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 11:34am
If you are going to climb rocks, the Lock Rites are probably a better choice than the Limited Slip Powerloc.  I have Powerlocs in the front and rear of my 1946 and the are great here on muddy, slippery trails, snow plowing, wet weather they are fine and the steering is great all of the time it the East.  They also don't engage while cornering so no chirping around corners or excess tire ware.  You have to spin them up - spin the tire with no traction to get the force to transfer.  When driving it is like you get that feeling you are going to  be stuck - put if you keep at it they will engage and pull you out.

Rocks are a different story - when you are doing something slow and techinical - they are not locked until you can't climb.  If you roll back even just a little they unlock - not ideal on rocks.

Someone has to put a limited slip in the front and a LockRite in the rear.  That might be the best of both worlds.

All depends on what you intend to do with the Jeep.  Rubicon probably LockRite front and rear.


Edited by Stev - 22 June 2020 at 11:38am
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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