Building a Universal Modified

Ok. I'll go along for support to see how you and Stan do. My suggestion is if you can't drive Chewy unassisted you turn around. I think you have a chance at it, but I am not sure about Stan on the smaller tires. Once you are past Chewy there really isn't an easy out and I don't think winching up everything is the right choice......plus then Stan has to get up, and he doesn't have a winch. 

chasendeer wrote: how did Bam Bam work with all the mods last week?

Not as good as I hoped. I lost first gear on the first day.    (gears being L-1-2-3). If you remember, that was the main reason for dropping my differentials to 4.56:1 was to get a 55-60:1 1st gear..... so my most important change, I didn't even get to try out.

I didn't notice any real gains in capability. At best, BAM BAM may have got a few "style points" for slow crawling some stuff but that is about it. He did win one slow crawl race so I guess the $3200 Rockeaters were worth it .... IDK because I didn't have first gear so I really don't know. Some situations, like "dill pickle" obstacle, granny is too slow and in second you are charging up the hill too fast. I couldn't lug second or I'd kill the engine.

I was able to slow crawl my way up the entrance to escalator for the first time. I think that is likely due to the 5" added wheelbase. Had the bowl not been full of water, I think I would have slow crawled that too but a slight bump in 2nd and I popped right out. That is one spot where I saw an improvement. With the 107:1 ratio, I was also able to go slow enough on Hell's Gate to keep my hood completely level the entire way... or at least it looked level from my vantage point. That's just style point though.

The first day, caused me to make some changes to my suspension geometry. My front was unloading too much and even inverting the shackles so I had to tie my winch to the front axle to limit the droop as seen in this pic by Brian Gabriel:



.... my rear shackles were squatting too far back and my tires were rubbing hard on my tool boxes in the wheel wells so I moved my front axle forward 1/2"



.... that seemed to take care of most of my suspension issues. My springs are squatting about an inch more than they were before the trip so I will likely put the leafs that I removed back in and see what I think. BAM BAM was flexy as all get-out:



.... but all of the jeeps made it through the obstacle so IDK. This was an area where the centered pumpkin caught me up a little. I was able to back up and bump over, but the offset pumpkin guys had no hitch. I noticed Fuzz got caught here too. (centered pumpkin).

Don't get me wrong, for me, it's not all about performance. One of my goals is to make as many changes as I can that still fool the novice jeep guy. I did have plenty of people ask me, "is it stock?", or say, "that's old school", so I feel like that went well and nobody noticed the 12" shocks in back. One guy thought my tires looked odd.

Along with loosing 1st gear, I also got a hole in the radiator, broke a front axle shaft, and broke the rear yoke on my differential. The front axle shaft broke due to sucking up a large rock into the front fender and locking up the wheel. I had a spare axle.

...... so now, I'm just trying to process what I learned and decide what my next move might be. I still need to put 10" shocks up front and do something to keep the front end from unloading up hill..... but other than changes for strength, I sort of feel like I've gone as far as I can go in the "Super Stock" class. Truthfully, I can't go anywhere the "Locker Stockers" can go. I may be able to look better doing it and not rub my belly as much ... and sometimes not look as good..... One reality that is sinking in is that if I want to keep taking BAM BAM places that a "stock flatty" doesn't belong, I have to have a more capable jeep and driver with me to help me if I get stuck. Not many winch points out in Moab. There was more stuff I wanted to do but just too risky by myself. IDK .... just trying to process it all. I guess the only thing left to add is more experience. That being said, the first day we were on the pickle, there were some Rubicons in front of us that had more trouble than we did going over "Dill Pickle" One guy who had what looked like 40" tires, had to be tugged after multiple attempts. Apparently his front locker wasn't working but then again, Ward did it in 3 wheel drive.

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1st gear:

As I said earlier, first gear went out ..... again ....

This time, I modified my tunnel so that I don't have to pull the tranny to get the top off:



Once again, the shift fork was wore out. This time it was less than 6 months:



It dawned on my that perhaps my shift cane had too much slop in it and maybe the forks were not able to slide the cog far enough to click into position. Took the cane apart.



.... aparently, these grooves are supposed to have some sort of o-ring or other insulator to keep gear noise from being amplified by the cane. Most guys weld this up but since I have excessive gear harmonics in the cab, I decided to replace them with new o-rings...... What a difference! Now the tranny shifts much better and smoother. and a huge bonus is that the gear noise I have been experiencing seems to be gone! Today I drove BAM BAM to work. Normally my human cruise control kicks in when my ears hear a certain dB. Since changing to 4.56 gears, that speed is about 50 mph. This morning on the way in to work, I looked down and I was doing 60. Now I hear tires and a little muffler. No gears. When I got to work, I put the TC into low range and drove on the gravel in 3/low. Yes, there is low range gear noise but at a level that I feel is acceptable so rock on!

Edited by jpet - 06 Apr. 2018 at 2:13pm

JPet,

What's the verdict on the rear locker ?

Lee

rocnroll wrote: Bam Bam's got lockers?!

BAM BAM is mostly stock .... but if he did have a Detroit locker in the back, I would have to say that it worked very well and that I am quite pleased. Off-road, I felt no ill effect. No pushing, in the turn, no clicking, I like it so much, I think I will try one in the front. ... eventually. I was considering upgrading to 30 spline axles in the front but there is no 30 spline Detroit for Dana 30. Might go to a D44 front .... IDK ... thinking. I will say that there is a lot of slip slop in this locker (by design). No big deal really but you don’t want to dump the clutch on it in any gear.

Drove into Effingham this afternoon and then home. I can’t believe how quiet this tranny is since I fixed up the cane shifter. Surprising actually how much noise the stick was amplifying.

Edited by jpet - 07 Apr. 2018 at 2:11am

“Slop”. Typo.

I've never used a Lock Rite. I assume they have have matching characteristics. I've heard Stan's click in the turn as well as Rick's. Not sure how a Lock Right works. A Detroit actually opens up in a turn so the parts don't wear over time. No ratcheting. Mainly, I want the Detroit for its reputation. I've read about Lock Rite issues, (even on this forum), but the Detroit has a reputation of being bullet proof.

I'm quite happy with a rear Detroit and front elocker, but I'd like to try a Detroit up front just to see for myself if the simplicity and reliability of two automatics, trumps the handling characteristics of selectables. I've read all the yay and nay. I'd just like to form my own opinion. The next step would be to try auto front and selectable rear. I realize that the common thought is to go select/auto, or open/auto. I think for turning, it's important that one of the lockers is selectable. Whether it is front or rear is not so important but after careful observation last week, especially of the jeeps on the pickle, I can kinda see Metcalf's point on auto/select. That might be the best combo for just driving around off-road without thinking about lockers. The front has to climb the obstacle before the rear, but as you climb, the weight transfers to the rear of the vehicle and the front end get light. The front end needs the locker assistance because there is not enough weight to "plant" both tires on the surface you are climbing. The rear tires have all the weight so they don't need as much help. In fact, the front is actually pulling the rear tires into the obstacle for even more force. This is what I was observing on the FFFFR.... but I'd like to find out for myself. Mileage may vary.

On a side note, I broke a front axle shaft at BFE, After getting tugged from the obstacle and going to 2WD (rear locker), I drove Minor Threat and Green Day with hardly any assistance in 2WD.

Edited by jpet - 07 Apr. 2018 at 2:14pm

The clutches in a LockRight do snap back and forth against each other as you turn, but it's not under any load then, so I don't think it causes much wear.  I think the main thing against them strength-wise is that they still use the stock carrier while a Detroit or Grizzly has a carrier that was engineered to be used like that.

Edited by Nothing Special - 07 Apr. 2018 at 6:57pm

Nothing Special wrote: ....And yes, you are essentially in 1 wheel drive all the time with a rear locker.  I've always rotated my tires, so I think that helps even it out.

That wouldn't help. The smallest tire is always driving. If you move it to the opposite side, it is still driving, just from the other side. Perhaps it would pay to take turns over inflating a tire from side to side to adjust for wear?

.... And I've never felt like I've had particularly bad tire life....

I suppose that is all that matters

... But a rear locker can't be HELPING tire life!...

... If the locker is selectable, there wouldn't be an issue.

Speaking strictly in off-road conditions, I think (auto/select) vs (select/auto) debate is somewhat insignificant since in both cases, you still have two lockers for any extreme condition and whether it is (auto/open) or (open/auto) you can still make tight turns ..... but if your goal is to flip a switch the least amount of times on a trail, my gut feeling is that (auto/select) might be better.   I would like to find out for myself though. I'm also very open minded on the subject. Snow covered pavement is a different issue, but now that I have a 4wd truck, I might be willing to forego driving my jeep in the snow and ice if I can gain an advantage off-road.

Edited by jpet - 07 Apr. 2018 at 3:58pm