Clutch or Synchronizing Gears |
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Silent Turtle
Member Joined: 08 Dec. 2020 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Posted: 30 Apr. 2021 at 8:39pm |
I finally got to do a little driveway test after the engine rebuild. The good news is the engine runs great. Bad news is that I am having some issues with getting it into second gear when in motion. I replaced clutch and pressure plate. I used the appropriate bolts with shoulders to fasten the pressure plate to fly wheel with 14lbs. I still need to do the final adjustment on the clutch cable as I replaced the clutch bellcrank and cable. The throwout bearing doesn't seem further than an 1/8 away from fingers. But I really have to depress the clutch petal pretty hard to get separation from the flywheel. The issue I am having is when I go from first to second I get grinding on the gears. It is like the clutch is spinning to fast to engage the transmission shaft. If I keep my foot on the clutch for 4-5 seconds the rpms finally slow down enough to were I can put it into second when the jeep is moving. Is/are my problems:
1). Pressure plate is too tight to flywheel or clutch is not centered on flywheel. It looks a little wobbly in video. 2). Throwout bearing is too far from pressure plate fingers or fingers need to be adjusted. If fingers need adjustment how do you do that? 3). The synchronizing gears are not working correctly when going from 1st to 2nd. I do not know how the synchronizing gears work. I assume they align the gears while the transmission shaft is spinning. Thanks ahead of time Video in motion and not. |
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smfulle
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Ogden, Utah Status: Offline Points: 6141 |
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I think probably your answer is right here in your description. Get the proper adjustment on the cable and it will probably work fine. if I remember right you need to adjust it so there is about 1 inch of free play at the pedal. The t90 is not a racing transmission and requires a little finesse when shifting, almost a two step process. Move the shifter out of 1st gear, wait just a moment as you move it to second for the synchros to spin up and then move it into second.
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Boomer
Member Joined: 08 Feb. 2021 Location: Fallon Nv. Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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I agree,,,, but looking at the space between throw out brg and pressure plate Im guessing you have at least 2 to 3 in of free pedel. adj and try again. It does seam that almost every manual tran has a sweet spot they like, find it and go...
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Fred46
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 05 July 2019 Location: Alliance, OH Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Smfulle is right on. Shifting a T90 takes some finesse. It’s a click to push from 1st to neutral, pause across, then easy press and click into 2nd. Then pull click out of 2nd into neutral, pause, then easy pull into 3rd. The term “not a racing transmission” is right on too. Pressing/pulling easy into 2nd and 3rd allows the pressure on the brass blocking rings to do their job of slowing down/stopping the gear spin to allow smooth engagement. Once you rebuild a T90 you’ll see the process and it’s a beautiful simple thing.
Your brand new clutch disk will break in just a little. Adjust the pedal to about 1” free play before resistance to the throw out bearing. ‘About’ 1” means 1” is not critical, it’s a starting point. You can give/take as needed. You just don’t want the plate fingers touching the throw out bearing when the pedal is released. With your inspection cover off you can see the disk stop spinning with the pedal in after a few moments. While off adjust the clutch and watch the throw out bearing doesn't spin when pedal released. As the clutch wears you’ll have to adjust linkage periodically (as per manual) as the clearance from plate fingers to throw out bearing diminishes. You do have a manual don’t you?
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JohnB
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 June 2014 Location: Saint Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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I just did mine. Like others have said, adjust your clutch cable or clutch rod (if adjustable) to 1" pedal and close to 1/8" space on throwout bearing. Also make sure your clutch crossover tube has short end on the chassis side.
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RSR_MK
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2009 Location: Cabool Mo Status: Offline Points: 657 |
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One thing to keep in mind is that it’s possible to install the clutch bellcrank backwards. If it’s installed backwards it limits the travel and will give you the issues you are seeing.
Mike |
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Silent Turtle
Member Joined: 08 Dec. 2020 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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I had to replace the clutch cable to the old one. The new one I ordered was too long. But finally got it to shift into second and third. Thanks for the tip on pausing for a second before going into second or third.
Hearing a noise from pressure plate area though. It is not the throw out. Comes and goes. Any idea what the noise could be? |
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Torkback
Member Joined: 23 Dec. 2016 Location: home Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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By the sound the clutch disk is in backwards.
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Silent Turtle
Member Joined: 08 Dec. 2020 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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And the clutch would function properly? Installing the clutch backwards wouldn’t allow the clutch to sit flat on the flywheel. And why would the noise be intermittent?
I am thinking maybe the clutch is not centered and the off center is making it shimmy.
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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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Did you replace the pilot bearing/bushing?
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Mike in AZ
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2391 |
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"I am thinking maybe the clutch is not centered and the off center is making it shimmy."
When the clutch is depressed the clutch plate floats (completely disengages) between the pressure plate and flywheel. You are probably good on centering. - My guess is that you need to back the pedal free off a little more. One test is to see if the engine will idle at 600 rpms or lower in neutral. If the throw out bearing is dragging the engine will not be able to idle that low.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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WeeWilly
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3423 |
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I had that same thing happen to me with the come and go noise and after a lot of frustration I found it to be the starter Bendex gear was floating up against the flywheel. It would happen mostly when I shoved the clutch pedal down. Jim
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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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Silent Turtle
Member Joined: 08 Dec. 2020 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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I am not sure on the idle RPM. But if the throw out bearing was touching, wouldn't it spin? I did have to manipulate the engine a little to get the bellhousing and engine studs to line up. It was off an 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch, so I am thinking the clutch is off an 1/8 to 1/4. I think I am going to just pull the engine again and replace the pilot bushing and use the clutch centering tool this time. it looks like the transmission main drive has a slight wobble. It is tough to tell with the pressure plate moving around, it could just be an optical illusion.
I guess there is something that always needs to be done. I finally was test driving over the last few days and the engine was running great. It started to sputter and lose power when I stepped on the pedal. I was certain it was a fuel problem, either plugged jet or pump. Spent half the day trouble shooting. Nope, it was a bad condenser which was brand new. I put the old one in and it ran great. I thank the forum. It is an encyclopedia of information. |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2391 |
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Once you install the new pilot bushing check to make sure it will accept the input shaft. I had a problem last year where the bushing was to tight on the input shaft, causing me to have to pull the engine and ream the pilot bushing hole to the correct size. Just something to confirm before installing the engine.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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If the clutch is off 1/4-1/8”, I don’t think you can put the transmission and engine together. Input shaft wouldn’t go into pilot bushing
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Mike in AZ
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WeeWilly
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3423 |
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Like Steve said check the pilot bearing for fit. I check them before I install them and if they need bored I bore them on a lathe. The last two I installed had to be bored.
Jim
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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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Silent Turtle
Member Joined: 08 Dec. 2020 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Turns out the pilot bushing was severely worn out or someone put the wrong one in. The main drive had probably a 1/4 inch of play to the bushing, maybe more. I swapped out for a new bushing and the noise and vibration stopped. Luckily I saw an old post about bread and a wooden dowel to remove the bushing. No back to trying to tackle the regulator issue.
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WeeWilly
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3423 |
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Great!!! Good to hear you found the problem. That would also cause it to jump out of third gear and cause damage to the input shaft bearings and gears.
Jim
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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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