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D18 transfer case project

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ndnchf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan. 2019 at 6:48pm
I got the correct ratio gears for the CJ2A; a 4 tooth drive and 15 tooth driven gear. I'm thinking now that this gear is shorter than what was originally in it. With the drive gear pushed all the way forward, the teeth seem to be in the right place to engage the driven gear.



Here is a view from the output shaft end.



I'm thinking maybe I can make a 1/8" thick spacer ring to make up the difference on the rear of the drive gear. But this is just a guess at how thick it needs to be. I'm hoping someone can shed some light here.
Thanks
Steve
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan. 2019 at 11:11pm
"I'm hoping someone can shed some light here."

I thought I did.  

I would double check your combination.  I purchased what the vendor described as the correct gear in their description.  They sent the wrong gear and could never fulfill the order with the correct driven gear.  




1- 1946 CJ2A   
2- 1949 CJ3A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 5:41am
Thanks, but these are not repro gears, these are original SW gears with the correct part numbers stamped on them; A-1511 and A-5707. No doubt that these are the correct gears. Something else is not right, just not sure what. What I have looks the the one on the left in your photo. I don't recall what the gear I removed and sent to oldtime looks like but it seems the length difference is the same as shown in your photo. So it likely was that. So what other part changed to account for the different length gear? Different companion flange?

Edited by ndnchf - 14 Jan. 2019 at 5:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 6:10am
The more I think  about it, I suspect the companion flange may be wrong. This TC came from a later jeep,thus the wrong speedo gears for my use.  I used the companion flange that came with it.  So maybe its a little short.  The splined part measures 1.500" long.



 Can someone check the length of a known CJ2A companion flange spline?  Thanks!
Steve


Edited by ndnchf - 14 Jan. 2019 at 6:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 6:41am
Doing some searching I found a thread on the g503 forum that discusses repro companion flanges being short and suggestions to make up or find a spacer.  Sounds awful familiar.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 8:35am
Yes, I remember reading a number of issues with the reproduction companion flanges.  In some instances they cause the case to bind up when seated fully against the speedo gear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 10:47am
Steve, measure the OAL of the drive gear I sent you and I'll measure the drive gear you sent me for comparison.
Yes SW drive gears can and do vary somewhat in OAL depending on the series of the gear set.

I'll measure an OEM companion flange while I'm at it.
What was the vintage of the OEM companion flange ?

FYI It was and remains normal practice to use a set of shims when installing all D20 speedo drive gears.

For more info please refer to post (particularly #10 to #14):


Edited by oldtime - 14 Jan. 2019 at 10:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 10:54am
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

Steve, measure the OAL of the drive gear I sent you and I'll measure the drive gear you sent me for comparison.
Yes SW drive gears can and do vary somewhat in OAL depending on the series of the gear set.

I'll measure an OEM companion flange while I'm at it.
What was the vintage of the OEM companion flange ?

FYI It was and remains normal practice to use a set of shims when installing all D20 speedo drive gears.

For more info please refer to post (#14):

Ken - the drive gear is 1.000" long.  I don't know the age of the companion flange, but this is a 1/1-4" intermediate shaft case and the shaft uses the clinch nuts rather than castle nuts.   Late 50s?  You mentioned spacers for use with D20 speedo, where can I find these?  I've been searching the net for spacers with no luck. Thanks.
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:04am
I should say that I can't measure the gear directly, its inside the rear bearing cap and I don't want to pull it apart yet. To get the the 1.000" measurement, I measured another shaft I have from the shoulder the gear goes up against to the end of the shaft.  Then on the TC, I measured from the end of the shaft to the rear edge of the gear (with the gear pushed all the way forward). Then subtracted that measurement from the other shaft's measured length to get 1.000" gear length.  Assuming the two shafts are the same, it should be within a few thousandths.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:20am
I'm certain that the speedometer drive gear I sent you ( same on all early military and Pre 1963 CJ's) measures very near to 1" OAL.
Not certain yet why your companion flange is not pressing up against it when you tighten the ouput shaft nut.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:30am
Quote Then on the TC, I measured from the end of the shaft to the rear edge of the gear (with the gear pushed all the way forward). 
So if that exposed spline shaft length is less than your companion flange length of 1.5". 
Then the speedo drive gear should certainly bind up when the nut is tightened down. Right ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:32am
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

I'm certain that the speedometer drive gear I sent you ( same on all early military and Pre 1963 CJ's) measures very near to 1" OAL.
Not certain yet why your companion flange is not pressing up against it when you tighten the ouput shaft nut.



Yes,  it measures 1" OAL.  

I was looking at D20 parts lists and found this.


In the diagram, part #27 looks like shims going up against the speedo gear.  Is this what you were referrring to?  Below the diagram it shows these as crown part #J0933743. If these are 1-1/8"  ID shims, then they should work.  Can you confirm this? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:37am
Yes that is the part. 
Unlike a D18, on the D20 rear bearing cap those shims are required to set the taper bearing play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:41am
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

Quote Then on the TC, I measured from the end of the shaft to the rear edge of the gear (with the gear pushed all the way forward). 
So if that exposed spline shaft length is less than your companion flange length of 1.5". 
Then the speedo drive gear should certainly bind up when the nut is tightened down. Right ?

No, my measurement was to the very end of the shaft, not just the splined part.  But I just measured distance from the gear to the end of the splined part- 1.513"  The flange spline is 1.503", so it is a little short.  But when I had the nut tight, there was more than .010" slop in the gear - I'm confused.   But either way, it still needs a shim or two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:42am
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

Yes that is the part. 
Unlike a D18, on the D20 rear bearing cap those shims are required to set the taper bearing play.

OK, looks like a need to order some.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 1:05pm
With the drive gear removed, you should be able to slide the driven gear off the shaft without removing the cap. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by athawk11 athawk11 wrote:

With the drive gear removed, you should be able to slide the driven gear off the shaft without removing the cap. 

Nope- the rear seal won't let it pass.  But I should be able to get the shims past the seal and up against the gear.  I'm not sure how thick the shims are, so I ordered two sets of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 1:31pm
Well that's odd.  In the photo above, I pulled the gear on the left out of the case so I could take a photo for you.  It was my working case until last year.  Seal is still in place.



Edit:  I will add that I needed to persuade the gear out.  I stuck my pinky in driven gear hole and pushed it toward the end.  Then grabbed the edge of the gear with a needle nose.



Edited by athawk11 - 14 Jan. 2019 at 1:36pm
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