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dana 44 rear axle |
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squirtdog 
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Joined: 16 Apr. 2013 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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 Topic: dana 44 rear axlePosted: 18 Apr. 2013 at 10:15pm |
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If I could find a 1970-1971 rear dana 44 would they have 30 spline axle shafts and be Flanged? I would like to replace my rear dana 41 and I know I would have to regear. Or should I go to a full floating rear axle if possible for the Dana 41. Thanks-Don
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wheelie
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Posted: 18 Apr. 2013 at 10:18pm |
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Yea, the 70 1/2 and '71 Dana 44 rears are 30 spline, flanged axles.
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oldtime
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Posted: 19 Apr. 2013 at 12:57am |
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In my opinion the Dana 41's (1946-1951) are superior to the Dana 44's built from 1951 to 1956. With the D41 both the ring and pinion are a much larger diameter. The D44 began production in 1951 to allow other final drive gearing options.
D44's built before late 1956 used the same identicle axle shafts as the D41.
The post 1956 D44's were improved by increasing the axle shaft diameter and using involute splines (19 count)
This was done to make the D44 strong enough for the Powr Lok differentials.
These 1957-1970 tapered D44 axles are very tough and durable.
These axles are already optimum for any and all 4 cylinder jeeps.
In fact these 1957-1970 D44's use a bigger/ better wheel bearing than the later flanged D44's.
It's very unlikely that a 4 cylinder engine would ever break one of these involute splined D44 axles.
The involute splined D44 axles were not used after 1970.
In 1969 Jeep CJ's began using offset flanged axles.
The axle shafts were again increased in diameter and they started using 30 count roll splines.
I consider the 30 spline D44 axles as overkill for clutches smaller than 10" diameter or engines smaller than a V6.
If your intending to install a V6 engine then you should consider installing a 30 spline axle.
It's not mandatory to use a 30 spline D44 axle for a V6 powered Jeep but it can be advantageous if used with certain drivetrain combinations. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Mike S
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Posted: 19 Apr. 2013 at 1:29am |
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Great backgrounder, Ken.
I upgraded the Spicer 41 in my '47 to FF flanged axles and MUCH stronger axle shafts. This was a kit made by Warn some years ago and they cut my axles to work on a S41. These made it much easier to upgrade to 11" brakes (and potentially disc brakes). On the front Warn made a kit for the D25 with new inners and the same flanged hub as the rears. This has worked out to be a very good solution for me - I had the brakes off, inspected, cleaned, drums painted, adjusters unstuck, and back on the Jeep in under two hours the other day. I know that WARN no longer makes the kits, but I believe there are one or twoo other comanies offering something similar. I expect that this set up is as strong as a D44 rear and, by the time buy, rebuild and re-gear, they probably are similar in cost.
Edited by Mike S - 19 Apr. 2013 at 1:32am |
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'47 CJ2A -- #114542
Warn FF D41 rear Lock-Right locker 11" drum brakes Dual master cylinder T90C Transmission 16 X 6 Jeep truck wheels Cooper STT Pro tires |
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squirtdog
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Posted: 19 Apr. 2013 at 1:29am |
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Thanks for the info-Don
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oldtime
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Posted: 19 Apr. 2013 at 1:48am |
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Another thing to consider is if you expect the Jeep to have "AIR TIME".
In that case you have two D44 options for the CJ.
There is an extremely rare vesion of the tapered D44 that was called a Heavy Duty version.
It used thicker axle tubes than standard D44 axles.
The other choice is relatively scarce yet much more commom than the HD tapered CJ D44 axles.
These are the Flanged CJ axles.
They use an offset carrier from late 1969 through 1971.
They use a centered carrier from 1972 through 1975.
The carrier offset directly effects the choice of transfer and vice versa.
You must use an offset carrier section with a D18 transfer case.
You must use centered carrier section with a D20 transfer case.
The offset flanged and the centered flanged D44's both have axle tubes that are of a larger diameter than the standard tapered CJ axles.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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duffer
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Posted: 19 Apr. 2013 at 3:56pm |
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To get back to the original question, going with the flanged (30 spline) 44 does open the door to a much greater selection of traction devices. The stock D44 19 spline axles still have the 2-piece tapered/keyed hub and, IMO, that is by far their weakest area.
Personally, I like the full float conversions. Not only much stronger, but the wheels stay on even if a shaft breaks and you still have brakes. It also allows you to pull the drive flanges (or turn the hubs out if so equiped) and the driveshaft and drive home with the front axle if you do break a shaft or scramble something in the differential.
Either the 30 spline (Herm sells these now) or the 19 spline such as the old AA kits, will be plently stout for just about any V6 or even a rather well built V8. While the 30 spline axles are bigger in-board, they still neck down to the same diameter as the 19 spline versions at the spindle and use the same 27 spline drive flanges-read: probably not any stronger and you have to pull the spindle to get them out. With the 19 spline versions, the axles can be removed with the tire/wheel still on the Jeep.
Bottom line is that if you want an ARB, OX or something similar, go with the 30 spline flanged axle if you can find one or put one of Herm's 30 spline full float kits in a 2 piece axle 44 housing-I would be opting for a Herm's kit. Edited by duffer - 19 Apr. 2013 at 4:04pm |
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1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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oldtime
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Posted: 19 Apr. 2013 at 8:14pm |
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Yeah I agree with you John.
The tapered hub is certainly the weakest link on a 1957-1970 CJ D44.
And a full float conversion for a tapered D44 is certainly a great way to go.
Personally I would prefer a 19 spline Jeep full floater over a 30 spline full floater.
That said I believe the 1969-1975 flanged D44 axles are a the strongest shafts made.
They don't neck down at all.
The oversize tubes are a plus.
If one did manage to break a D44 flanged axle shaft that could potentially leave you stranded.
And of course the flanged or tapered D44 differential always turns if you flat tow it. Edited by oldtime - 19 Apr. 2013 at 8:16pm |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Zuma58
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Posted: 20 Apr. 2013 at 2:34pm |
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I bought my 47 not knowing the D41 had a full floating kit already installed. I was happy to find out that it also had a Lock Rite locker (Identified by the good people here). The strange thing is that it has 27 spline axles, very hard to find warn hubs for it. Yea I know I can buy new ones, but my budget won't allow that at this time. Anyways from what I have read, the 41 is just as strong as the 44 as long as you aren't beating the crap out of your jeep. BTW, mine also came with a 283 chev in it.
Jus my .02
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Steve
Long May You Run!!! |
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duffer
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Posted: 20 Apr. 2013 at 2:58pm |
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I agree with Ken on the relative strength of the 41 versus the 44 but there is one very big reason not to go with the 41 if you are not going completely stock: you basiclly have no gearing options-the only thing you will find is 5.38's-and just finding a good replacement ring and pinion may be a challenge. D44 parts are everywhere and very abundant.
It is interesting how some platforms fall by the wayside and others, with no apparent addition engineering merit, garner a lot of aftermarket support. Case in point: the D53. IMO, just about the perfect heavy duty axle for a Jeep, the only downside of which is the two piece axle shaft/hub. The ring and pinion are on par with a Ford 9" and it has the larger tubes of the flanged 44 housing-yet way lighter and with more ground clearence than a D60. Unfortunately, it has the same aftermarket support of the D41-none.
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1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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Metcalf
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Posted: 22 Apr. 2013 at 9:12pm |
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Just make your own full float D44 using an early CJ5 housing....
 The early cj5 2-pc axle housings are pretty easy to find. You can get a few different factory gear ratios and any D44 ring and pinion will work with the proper series carrier. I used a Yukon spindle that has a large enough bore to take a 30-spline flanged axle. No need to buy hubs or drive flanges so that saves a decent amount of money. From my research the 27 spline outer is a known weak link over time. Some people have it work for year and years, others have the hubs go out a lot. I think it depends on the rear locker to a degree. I considered using drive flanges but also decided against it. The 30 spline flanged floater is the best option in my opinion if you are not going to flat tow. If you want 30 spline just find a 30 spline carrier or convert the 19-spline version. I had a Powr-lok and changed the internals to 30 spline. I built an adapter to allow a stock spindle to be used AND to match the width of the front open knuckle D30. You can turn the back of the spindle down to fit in the stock D44 bearing pocket easy enough if you want a factory width floating axle. Any brake system should work since the spindle bolt pattern is the same. I made a simple disc brake conversion. |
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42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.
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Zuma58
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Posted: 23 Apr. 2013 at 3:39am |
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Metcalf, this is interesting, I was under the understanding that the more splines the stonger the axle. I thought that a 30 was stronger than a 27 or a 19, perhaps I am wrong, (wouldn't be the first time), anyway correct me if I am wrong
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Steve
Long May You Run!!! |
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Metcalf
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Posted: 23 Apr. 2013 at 3:36pm |
I am running a 30 spline flanged axle floater. That is the strongest option. I was trying to say that there are lots of options. |
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42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.
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oldtime
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Posted: 23 Apr. 2013 at 4:33pm |
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Axle shaft strength is relative to the metal that is used and also the smallest diameter of the axle shaft.
When axle shafts are made to convert an axle to a full float design the shaft then normally accepts a 27 spline outer drive flange.
That is what Duffer meant when he referred to "neck down".
It simply means that the axle shaft diameter was reduced to accept the 27 spline drive flange or hub.
For that reason there is no advantage to using a 30 inner spline over 19 involute splines.
They are both necked down to accept the much smaller diameter 27 spline drive flange/hubs.
Flanged type axle shafts never neck down to accept the hub.
Infact they "neck up", meaning they greatly incease in diameter near to the flange.
If the shaft is not necked down then the weakest part of the axle shaft is typically where the splines go into the differential case.
Here are those dimensions:
Dana 23-2 rear, Dana 25 front and Dana 27 front all have 10 straight cut spline axle shafts.
They measure 1.12" outside diameter or .005" under 1-1/8". Dana 30 front has 27 rolled spline axle shafts. Pre 1957 Jeep Dana 44 rear axle shafts all have 10 staight cut spline rear shafts. They measure 1.225" outside diameter. Post 1956 Jeep Dana 44 rear axle shafts all have 19 involute spline axle shafts. They measure 1.245" outside diameter or .005" under 1-1/4". Post 1970 Jeep Dana 44 use 30 count rolled spline axle shafts. They measure 1.285" outside diameter. Edited by oldtime - 24 Apr. 2013 at 12:24am |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Metcalf
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Posted: 23 Apr. 2013 at 6:09pm |
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Right, That is why I went with a flanged style full float axle ( no locking hub or flange )
I would have rather had the shaft turned down to the minor diameter of the splines but the manufacturer charged another upcharge for that above just reducing the shaft blank diameter to the max spline diameter. I basically had to have it turned down to 1.29 to fit through the spindle. I found that the 27 spline outer was going to be a weak link, not to mention the hub or drive flange weakness. Going 30 spline on the carrier opens up a LOT of options for locking differentials. |
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42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.
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JeeperJim
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Posted: 27 Jan. 2018 at 5:23am |
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I am looking seriously at converting my dana 44 to a flull floater but retaining the original carrier with the brand new ring and pinion.
The one thing that I did not see from Herm is spinder gears that are needed to be swapped out. What is a good source for new spinder or side gears that are compatible with his double splined shafts? Jim jeeperjim |
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JeeperJim
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oldtime
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Posted: 27 Jan. 2018 at 3:29pm |
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Your not stating what you have.
We don't even know the year of it ? You have a taperered Dana 44 ? What specific differential case ? Open or other ? What's the current spline count ? 10 spline milled ? 19 spline involute ? 30 spline rolled ? I expect that Herm is selling various spline counts on either end of the axle shafts.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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JeeperJim
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Posted: 27 Jan. 2018 at 4:01pm |
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Sorry about that.
I took a Dana 44 off my 51 M38 and installed in my 46 CJ2A. It is an original style 5.38 ring and pinion with new gears. with tapered shafts. I have 5 front 25 and 27 axles so I have spare front parts and therefore want to convert my 44 to a full floater. Sine the guy who put the new ring and pinion in did not set up the side gear clearance correctly (no miles since rebuild) I will be pulling them out to set up correctly anyway. I am trying to determine which spline count I want to order from Herm or otherwise. I am 3 miles from a 4wheel parts store in Baton Rouge, LA so I may also employ them if needed. Jim PS: I have a 25 up front but also have a 27 that is a spare. Any advice there would be appreciated too. I do not plan on anything other than an open diff up front and I run 7.00 x 16 NDT's on my 16 x 5 M38 wheels. No rock crawling but an occasional medium mud bath. :) |
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JeeperJim
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Zuma58 wrote: