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DID the specifications for Thermostats change? |
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Mark W. 
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Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
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 Topic: DID the specifications for Thermostats change?Posted: 25 Jan. 2021 at 11:22pm |
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Not here so much but on some of the Facebook Willys based Pages I have seen some wild recommendations for thermostat ratings one guy got all belligerent insisting that the Manual specified a 145° thermostat. Which of course is crazy. But even here guys will talk about using 160° thermostats. Yet in my service manual it specifies that it should start to open at 168° and be fully open at 188° which is as far as I know the spec's of a 180° - 185° thermostat. Did an earlier manual specify a lower temp? Mine is a 1958 and it lists the opening at 168° fully open at 188°. I see the 1/4 ton Military manual spec's a thermostat that maintains temp between 160° and 180° with an opening temp of 145°-150° So that must be where the guy on Facebook got that idea.
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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Joe Friday
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Posted: 25 Jan. 2021 at 11:51pm |
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I sent you some info that should either provide clarity, or confuse things more.
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Hamhog
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Joined: 05 Jan. 2008 Location: Havelock NC Status: Offline Points: 1679 |
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Posted: 26 Jan. 2021 at 12:01am |
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The Forth Edition CJ2A owner's manual specifies a 145 - 155 degree F thermostat, as does the CJ2A maintenance manual.
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Dave
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Steelyard Blues
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Joined: 09 Oct. 2017 Location: Reno, NV Status: Offline Points: 1500 |
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Posted: 26 Jan. 2021 at 12:22am |
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Mark,
I managed to score six NOS bellows thermostats. They indicate a standard temperature for the MB/GPW and CJ2A. They have date codes between 1945 and 1947. All the same model but early and later boxes. I tested all of them and found that they opened between 160-165 and were fully open by around 170. Micah   |
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1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981 1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577 |
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Mark W.
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Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
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Posted: 26 Jan. 2021 at 4:24am |
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Interesting. will be running 180° thermostat but then it will also not be in the stock dome either I have a thermostat housing modified from one designed for a SBC I'm am going to be using. I want my engine for reasons of efficiency (read mileage) to run at 180° Also going to run a 7psi cap. I see no reason not to I have a modern aluminum radiator and everything in my cooling system is brand new but the water jacket. |
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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Joe Friday
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Posted: 26 Jan. 2021 at 5:51am |
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Mark, did you read the email document I sent you?
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Mark W.
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Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
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Posted: 26 Jan. 2021 at 2:25pm |
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I downloaded it on my phone Joe and it was to small to read I'll get it on the computer today and have a look.
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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Joe Friday
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Posted: 27 Jan. 2021 at 8:03pm |
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Well, what it said was that the thermostat used for MB and CJ2A was 637646.
It was stamped 151 degrees, but called a 160 in most publications. "At 29" Barometer - valve must start to open 148 to 155 degrees fahrenheit & be fully open at 173 degrees. Agitated liquid bath leakage .1 to .7 gallons per minute at 3 psi cold water, 1/16 inch seepage hole. Approved suppliers Harrison 3108628, Bridgeport P15-361-C2, Fulton 7014-R Those are the Willys Factory Engineering specifications.
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Mark W.
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Posted: 27 Jan. 2021 at 8:15pm |
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Well thanks Joe my engine is a 1958-59 DJ-3A engine. SO the 58 manual I have would I assume be more accurate. It says open starts at 168° and fully open by 188° But that certainly explains where the discrepancy between say the 1/4 ton Military manual and the 1958 manual I have progresses.
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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Steelyard Blues
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Posted: 27 Jan. 2021 at 8:32pm |
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Joe,
That is pretty much in line with what I observed from the NOS ones I found. They are probably a little bit better in telling when they open than I can. From the 1965 Service Manual:  I wonder if better radiators cause them to change the thermostat specs. Micah
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1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981 1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577 |
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Mark W.
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Posted: 28 Jan. 2021 at 5:05am |
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thanks Micah that info puts me dead on. As I have said my engine is from a 58-59 DJ3a . So a 180degree thermostat and a 7psi cap is whats called for.
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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drm101
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Joined: 12 Dec. 2012 Location: Clarkston, MI Status: Offline Points: 1471 |
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Posted: 28 Jan. 2021 at 2:58pm |
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I notice that the motor temp of our's fluxuate's a ton based on the ambient temp. If I only drove it in the winter, I'd run the hottest thermostat I could find, and if I only drove it in the summer, I'd want a cold one. If it's 30 degrees F ambient and I have the heater running, I can't get it above 150. If it's 90 degrees, and I'm running around on the road, it will hit 200 and sometimes hotter if I am running it hard. My point is that the thermostat you run is dependent on your specific application.
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Dean
'47 CJ2A "Ron" '66 CJ5 "Buckie" The less the Power the More the Force |
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TERRY
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Posted: 28 Jan. 2021 at 3:38pm |
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We used to use a piece of cardboard across part of the radiator in extremely cold weather. Called it a West Virginia thermostat, now bubba stat is good too.
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BOULDER 48 2A
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Steelyard Blues
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Posted: 28 Jan. 2021 at 6:53pm |
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I think operating temperature fluctuations between summer and winter are often a result of radiator efficiency. The thermostat is supposed to regulate the temperature within a range. The radiator is supposed to handle all the heat made by the engine from idle to full power in excess of the range of the thermostat.
In the winter, it is no problem to dissipate heat when the ambient temperature is so low. Running the heater is like having an auxiliary radiator. Blocking the radiator with cardboard can help. I have seen surplus winter kits for the M38 which cover the radiator with canvas.
Having a thermostat open at a lower temp in the summer may give you a little bit of a jump on keeping her cool or being able to bring her back down to a lower temp at low RPM/Load so that she can be worked hard again. If the radiator doesn't have the capacity to keep her cool, or there is another cooling issue, she is going to run hot. An old trick to bring down a hot engine in the summer was to turn the heater on. Not comfortable but beats overheating. Overheating issues is something I have battled on my Jeep since the day I got her. Most of the problem was rust in the block. With the block flushed and everything else has gone through, including the stock radiator, and adding the shroud extension, I still have temperature spikes under heavy load. I think the stock radiator just does not have the capacity to dissipate all of the heat this motor makes. I would like to see what the "Hot Climate Radiator" (Group 35-22) looked like. That may be what should have been the stock radiator. I'm currently looking at carb jetting to see if some of the excess temperature I'm experiencing is due to a lean condition at high RPM/load. Micah |
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1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981 1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577 |
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willys54wagon
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Joined: 24 July 2008 Location: Ames, IA Status: Offline Points: 1444 |
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Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 8:58pm |
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The History of Antifreeze - crankSHIFT
WWII was a major change over to ethylene glycol but is was still in transition during the 50's. lot of poor farmers and slow adoption. I think the 145-150 degree thermostat was an association with the alcohol antifreeze. Too hot and it boiled out. and this low of thermostat did not give you a lot of comfort heat in the winter.
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Two jeeps on the road, one is close and the rest are dreams.
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willys54wagon
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Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 9:00pm |
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I think the stock radiator just does not have the capacity to dissipate all of the heat this motor makes.
-------------------------------- you do have the shroud?
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Two jeeps on the road, one is close and the rest are dreams.
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willys54wagon
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Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 9:05pm |
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always reminds me of my brother having a cracked block in the flat head ford v/8. Poor college student and couldn't afford antifreeze in the early 60's so put cheap kerosene in the radiator during the winter.
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Two jeeps on the road, one is close and the rest are dreams.
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Mark W.
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Posted: 30 Jan. 2021 at 10:08pm |
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We always ran a 180 degree in CHUG back in the day ( 60's and 70's) no idea what it would have done for a heater never had one. I know we always ran a 50/50 mix in the radiator. Now I have a Champion Aluminum radiator and a Summit Racing Heater. Dual thermostatically controlled Electric fans in a almost full coverage shroud. Should be quite the improvement.
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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