E-locker Engagement |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2735 |
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Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 4:31am |
I am planning an upgrade to my '2A, possibly including selectable lockers at both ends.
Trying to decide between ARB, OX, and E-Locker. I had originally discounted the E-Locker because I read that -> "it takes up to 180 degrees of wheel rotation to engage" even from forward to reverse. My first thought was "this is totally unacceptable", but as I think about it more -> this does not mean there is a huge "slack" in the driveline, only that it will be "open" for a bit, until it locks up. For those who run E-lockers, is this a big deal? Do you even notice (with one wheel up in the air) that it takes some rotation before the locker engages?
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bretto
Member Joined: 05 June 2010 Location: Orem, Ut Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Are all these lockers available in 10-spline?
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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Available in 10 spline is the issue. Lockright seems to be the common answer.
QTM has some Dana 27 Powerloks advertised on eBay for around $130ish. I have one in our 1946 Dana 25. It requires some machining to get it to work but is a dream when off-roading. Steering is normal not bound like a locker - again it needs to be worked on to get it to fit in the Dana 25 case.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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bretto
Member Joined: 05 June 2010 Location: Orem, Ut Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Ya but they are probably 19-spline units which means you would have to replace your axles.
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Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7923 |
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NO E-Locker is made that will fit the Dana 41 or 25 The closest I could ever find is for the Dana 44 and 30
Also no ARB or OX is either. Thats why I built a 1971 Dana 44 30 spline flanged rear axle for my project. I used an E Locker with G2 5.38 gears and SKF bearings (japanese timkin quality used as OEM in toyota pickups) As to the front axle my plan well down the road is to narrow a Dana 30 (yes I know its only 3 inches wider) or best option build a Dana 44 and put an E-locker in it. I figure that front axle will be around $2500 to $2800 |
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Speaking from my own experience, I have noticed from time to time that my elockers can come disengaged and it has been in situations where there was some backing up involved for a second attempt. I guess theoretically, if you have 31” tires, and you have to back up for a second attempt, you might want to back up 4’. Likewise, you need to disengage them with a little room before the turn. I only engage them when I need them, and release them as soon as I no longer need them, especially when making a turn. If they are engaged and you start a turn, they will not release till you straighten out your wheels and drive forward ... for up to 4’. None of these affects have been a problem for me since I understand what’s going on. like driving on snowy roads with an automatic locker. If you know what to expect, you can deal with it.
All in all I’ve been satisfied with my elockers but if I had it to do over again, I would probably consider the OX locker because it is the only selectable locker that you can force on in the event of an electrical, air, or cable failure. Edited by jpet - 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:35pm |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2735 |
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I forgot to mention, also included in my upgrades is a 31-spline Dana44. I am not hoping to put in current 10-spine (which has a Lock-Rite now)
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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I’m not sure if my elockers are the same design as the one in the video or not. Mine has the three pins riding on cams. I’ve not studied it enough to talk completely intelligent on it but does take some rotation to engage and It does disengage once in a while that appears to be related to backing up.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2735 |
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jpet, I saw that video earlier, it was the first time I understood how the E-locker works. I had read about magnets, rings, ramps etc, but could not envision it. That video helped a lot.
Your situation of backing up to take another attempt is exactly what I was concerned about. Sometimes we want to back up much less than 4 feet for a retry. (to avoid dropping into even worse shape, haha) I would go with OX in a heartbeat, except for one possibly silly reason, I would prefer to look stock, and don't like that gaudy diff cover. haha
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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I just got the 4’ from the 180 degrees mentioned on the video. I’m not sure what it is.
In the situation you are talking about, you don’t have to back up 4’ if it doesn’t exist. Drive forward and if one tire looses traction, it will get it somewhere between 0 and 180 degrees. I wouldn’t be afraid to get an elocler. You’ve seen my videos. That’s what it is. ARB might have better engagement, but you have air lines and a compressor to deal with. Compromises, right Bob . My rear diff cover has taken significant damage and I need to replace it with something stronger. If I bought an OX locker, I’d grind the logo off. Edited by jpet - 02 Dec. 2017 at 4:13pm |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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When I get home, I’ll jack up the back end and do some testing.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7923 |
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With a 29-31" tall tire 47 inches is an average of what the tire would travel in 180 degree of rotation. So jpet is spot on.
While I can see where in some rare instances having the axle needing to rotate 180 degrees to lock up between forwards and back wards. If one tire spins then the 180 will be covered and you might not even have to actually move. ON the other hand having gone 4 wheeling for 3 years in high school with an open rear end. The E-Locker will be a HUGE improvement. And I personally wanted the simplest activation system available and as good of on road performance as a stock rear axle. |
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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The Dana 27 Powerloks are advertised as NOS made in 1963. They look like 10 spline. Here is what I did to the Dana 27 Powerlok to get it to fit. |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Did some experimenting. It turns out that it is less than 180 degrees. The locker has three pins evenly spaced at 120 degrees. These pins are pushed in by ramps when the electromagnet is engaged as shown in this video:
.... the ramps go up and down between each pin so locker engagement occurs in 1/6th of a rotation, or 60 degrees, or 1.35 ft on 31” tires. If you back up when the locker is activated, it will disengage in 1/6th of a revolution and then re-engage in another 1/6th revolution. Watch the video. You will see the pins pop out and then go back in when he puts the axle in reverse. Since the pins are activated by ramps, I’m not sure where on the ramp engagement occurs but you can see for yourself in this video: ...... the disengagement doesn’t appear to be that significant but one thing to think about when you are stuck in a mud hole. If you are trying to bully your way out by backing up hard and then going forward hard, back up, go forward, etc, your locker is engaging and disengaging with lots of force. Edited by jpet - 03 Dec. 2017 at 3:03am |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7923 |
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Thanks jpet Good to know about how that $900 toy in my rear axle I have not yet been able to make move with an engine operates.
Maybe some day before I get to old I'll have enough of this done to actually drive it. |
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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Bob W
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 08 Aug. 2005 Location: Monticello, NY Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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Back in the 80s I put one of these in a CJ-3A Dana 25 front axle. I have to say that it was probably the best limited slip differential that I ever had. From memory it seems like I had to machine both sides of the carrier so the side bearings would fit properly and also made up a 1/8" thick ring gear spacer.
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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Bob W - I am with you on how well it works in the front differential. The one I installed did not need a spacer - just machining the carrier and counter sinking the bolts. (I may have shortened the case by 1/8" on the drivers side of the Dana 27 Powerlok to get into the smaller Dana 25 pumpkin).
Great to hear someone else has done this. At the time, I had read on Vernco about Karl's Hens tooth Dana 25 Powerlok and found a Dana 27 Powerlok. Karl convinced me that the Powerlok was the best option because it had been built to use the 10 spline axles. I ordered a new set of Clutches from Boarder Parts out of California. It is really amazing how it responds like an open front differential until you start to actually get stuck - then after a little spinning or slipping it transfers just enough to overcome the slip. It then releases the limited slip a once both wheel find traction. Steers like a open differential Jeep. There is a side of me that thinks I should buy a few of these and put them way for other projects. NOS for $130. I think I had that in new clutch backs and cross shafts.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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