Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Modifications from original
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - E-locker Engagement
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

E-locker Engagement

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: E-locker Engagement
    Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 4:31am
I am planning an upgrade to my '2A,  possibly including selectable lockers at both ends. 
 
Trying to decide between ARB, OX, and E-Locker.    I had originally discounted the E-Locker because I read that -> "it takes up to 180 degrees of wheel rotation to engage"  even from forward to reverse.
 
My first thought was "this is totally unacceptable",  but as I think about it more ->  this does not mean there is a huge "slack" in the driveline,   only that it will be "open" for a bit, until it locks up.
 
For those who run E-lockers,  is this a big deal?   Do you even notice (with one wheel up in the air) that it takes some rotation before the locker engages?
Back to Top
bretto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 June 2010
Location: Orem, Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 1930
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bretto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 2:46pm
Are all these lockers available in 10-spline?
Back to Top
Stev View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member

Joined: 27 July 2016
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:08pm
Available in 10 spline is the issue.  Lockright  seems to be the common answer.

QTM has some Dana 27 Powerloks advertised on eBay for around $130ish.  I have one in our 1946 Dana 25.  It requires some machining to get it to work but is a dream when off-roading.  Steering is normal not bound like a locker - again it needs to be worked on to get it to fit in the Dana 25 case.
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:10pm
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
bretto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 June 2010
Location: Orem, Ut
Status: Offline
Points: 1930
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bretto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Stev Stev wrote:

Available in 10 spline is the issue.  Lockright  seems to be the common answer.

QTM has some Dana 27 Powerloks advertised on eBay for around $130ish.  I have one in our 1946 Dana 25.  It requires some machining to get it to work but is a dream when off-roading.  Steering is normal not bound like a locker - again it needs to be worked on to get it to fit in the Dana 25 case.

Ya but they are probably 19-spline units which means you would have to replace your axles.
Back to Top
Mark W. View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 09 Nov. 2014
Location: Silverton, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 7923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:32pm
NO E-Locker is made that will fit the Dana 41 or 25 The closest I could ever find is for the Dana 44 and 30

Also no ARB or OX is either.

Thats why I built a 1971 Dana 44 30 spline flanged rear axle for my project. I used an E Locker with G2 5.38 gears and SKF bearings (japanese timkin quality used as OEM in toyota pickups)

As to the front axle my plan well down the road is to narrow a Dana 30 (yes I know its only 3 inches wider) or best option build a Dana 44 and put an E-locker in it. I figure that front axle will be around $2500 to $2800
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
1949 3A W/S
1957 CJ5 Frame Modified
Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:33pm
Speaking from my own experience, I have noticed from time to time that my elockers can come disengaged and it has been in situations where there was some backing up involved for a second attempt. I guess theoretically, if you have 31” tires, and you have to back up for a second attempt, you might want to back up 4’. Likewise, you need to disengage them with a little room before the turn. I only engage them when I need them, and release them as soon as I no longer need them, especially when making a turn. If they are engaged and you start a turn, they will not release till you straighten out your wheels and drive forward ... for up to 4’. None of these affects have been a problem for me since I understand what’s going on.   like driving on snowy roads with an automatic locker. If you know what to expect, you can deal with it.

All in all I’ve been satisfied with my elockers but if I had it to do over again, I would probably consider the OX locker because it is the only selectable locker that you can force on in the event of an electrical, air, or cable failure.

Edited by jpet - 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:35pm
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:40pm
I forgot to mention,Embarrassed  also included in my upgrades is a 31-spline Dana44. Big smile     I am not hoping to put in current 10-spine  (which has a Lock-Rite now)
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:47pm
I’m not sure if my elockers are the same design as the one in the video or not. Mine has the three pins riding on cams. I’ve not studied it enough to talk completely intelligent on it but does take some rotation to engage and It does disengage once in a while that appears to be related to backing up.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 3:53pm
jpet,  I saw that video earlier,  it was the first time I understood how the E-locker works.  I had read about magnets, rings, ramps etc,  but could not envision it.  That video helped a lot.
 
Your situation of backing up to take another attempt is exactly what I was concerned about.  Sometimes we want to back up much less than 4 feet for a retry.  (to avoid dropping into even worse shape, haha)
 
I would go with OX in a heartbeat,  except for one possibly silly reason,  I would prefer to look stock,  and don't like that gaudy diff cover.  haha
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 4:11pm
I just got the 4’ from the 180 degrees mentioned on the video. I’m not sure what it is.

In the situation you are talking about, you don’t have to back up 4’ if it doesn’t exist. Drive forward and if one tire looses traction, it will get it somewhere between 0 and 180 degrees. I wouldn’t be afraid to get an elocler. You’ve seen my videos. That’s what it is. ARB might have better engagement, but you have air lines and a compressor to deal with.   Compromises, right Bob . My rear diff cover has taken significant damage and I need to replace it with something stronger. If I bought an OX locker, I’d grind the logo off.

Edited by jpet - 02 Dec. 2017 at 4:13pm
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 4:44pm
When I get home, I’ll jack up the back end and do some testing.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
Mark W. View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 09 Nov. 2014
Location: Silverton, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 7923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2017 at 8:42pm
With a 29-31" tall tire 47 inches is an average of what the tire would travel in 180 degree of rotation. So jpet is spot on.

While I can see where in some rare instances having the axle needing to rotate 180 degrees to lock up between forwards and back wards. If one tire spins then the 180 will be covered and you might not even have to actually move. ON the other hand having gone 4 wheeling for 3 years in high school with an open rear end. The E-Locker will be a HUGE improvement. And I personally wanted the simplest activation system available and as good of on road performance as a stock rear axle.
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
1949 3A W/S
1957 CJ5 Frame Modified
Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
Back to Top
Stev View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member

Joined: 27 July 2016
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2017 at 12:26am
The Dana 27 Powerloks are advertised as NOS made in 1963.  They look like 10 spline.


Here is what I did to the Dana 27 Powerlok to get it to fit.

I used the gear mounting surface from the Dana 25 carrier as the reference surface and machined in the seats the Powerlok to match the seats two match the Dana 25 based on the on the gear mounting surface.  Then I counter sank the bolts that hold the Powerlok case together.  All good.  Then I cut 1/4 inch off of the end of the drivers side 10 spline axle that inserts in to the Powerlok to adjust for  the case trimming.  Any good machine shop can do this.
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2017 at 3:00am
Did some experimenting. It turns out that it is less than 180 degrees. The locker has three pins evenly spaced at 120 degrees. These pins are pushed in by ramps when the electromagnet is engaged as shown in this video:



.... the ramps go up and down between each pin so locker engagement occurs in 1/6th of a rotation, or 60 degrees, or 1.35 ft on 31” tires.   If you back up when the locker is activated, it will disengage in 1/6th of a revolution and then re-engage in another 1/6th revolution. Watch the video. You will see the pins pop out and then go back in when he puts the axle in reverse. Since the pins are activated by ramps, I’m not sure where on the ramp engagement occurs but you can see for yourself in this video:



...... the disengagement doesn’t appear to be that significant but one thing to think about when you are stuck in a mud hole. If you are trying to bully your way out by backing up hard and then going forward hard, back up, go forward, etc, your locker is engaging and disengaging with lots of force.

Edited by jpet - 03 Dec. 2017 at 3:03am
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
Mark W. View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 09 Nov. 2014
Location: Silverton, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 7923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2017 at 5:19am
Thanks jpet Good to know about how that $900 toy in my rear axle I have not yet been able to make move with an engine operates.

Maybe some day before I get to old I'll have enough of this done to actually drive it.
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
1949 3A W/S
1957 CJ5 Frame Modified
Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
Back to Top
Bob W View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member x 4

Joined: 08 Aug. 2005
Location: Monticello, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2017 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Stev Stev wrote:

The Dana 27 Powerloks are advertised as NOS made in 1963.  They look like 10 spline.

Back in the 80s I put one of these in a CJ-3A Dana 25 front axle. I have to say that it was probably the best limited slip differential that I ever had. From memory it seems like I had to machine both sides of the carrier so the side bearings would fit properly and also made up a 1/8" thick ring gear spacer.
Back to Top
Stev View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member

Joined: 27 July 2016
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2017 at 1:55pm
Bob W - I am with you on how well it works in the front differential.  The one I installed did not need a spacer - just machining the carrier and counter sinking the bolts.  (I may have shortened the case by 1/8" on the drivers side of the Dana 27 Powerlok to get into the smaller Dana 25 pumpkin). 

Great to hear someone else has done this.  At the time, I had read on Vernco about Karl's Hens tooth Dana 25 Powerlok and found a Dana 27 Powerlok.  Karl convinced me that the Powerlok was the best option because it had been built to use the 10 spline axles.   I ordered a new set of Clutches from Boarder Parts out of California.

It is really amazing how it responds like an open front differential until you start to actually get stuck - then after a little spinning or slipping it transfers just enough to overcome the slip.  It then releases the limited slip a once both wheel find traction.  Steers like a open differential Jeep.  

There is a side of me that thinks I should buy a few of these and put them way for other projects.  NOS for $130.  I think I had that in new clutch backs and cross shafts.
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.