engine number 4LR105647

Thanks for that information, Mark.  This GPW is 6 hours away and I have just some photos of it in a barn so I can't answer the questions.  The fellow who listed it for a friend doesn't know much about it, but apparently the friend's father had a number of Jeeps and this is the last one his son is selling. Would this engine have been purchased from Willys then?    Does the serial number indicate anything about the year of the engine or when it might have been purchased?

 It has the bracket for the oil filter but no oil filter on it and the battery looks like it may be a 12 volt battery but it does have a generator rather than an alternator.  It's a bit of a mixed bag of Jeep parts but appears to have a 43 GPW frame and tub, although the rear has a flat panel bolted on the body as perhaps a repair or a replacement if someone had cut the back out for a tailgate.

He is asking $4,750  for it not running but says the engine turns over by hand and they don't know any more about its condition than that.

There were plenty of 12 Volt generators made so having a generator does not indicate whether 12 or 6 volt without looking at the tag on it. That looks like a 12 Volt regulator on the fender the 6 Volt regulator would be larger I think.

If your thinking of restoring a jeep for its value your in the wrong frame of mind. Unless you spend a stupid amount of money and do a perfect restoration you will never see more then the value of a 10 year old used car. The number of Willys or Ford jeeps that can or will sell for more then $20,000 is TINY.

The value in a jeep like ours is the enjoyment of working on them and then driving them and having fun with them. NOT MONEY

When the hard top is done on my Build I am pretty sure I will have about 20 grand into it. If I could get that in a sale for my Willys I would be totally amazed. Now if you counted the 10.5 Years of almost every spare moment working on it including pretty much 4 solid months every winter. Selling it for 20 grand would put me about $250,000 in the hole based on my income as a Dump truck driver.

If your worried about what to insure it for I have mine currently at 20,000 and when the hard top is done I am going to up it to $25,000 and I pay as much for my coverage on it as I do for the wifes 2013 Ford Focus SE.

Two reasonable people can disagree on the definition of reasonable ...  The old adage is that you make your money on the buy.  I'm of the opinion that since you can easily chase your intial investment with 15 to 20k to create a $10-$12,000 masterpiece that what you're "buying" is the journey, not the destination.

That said, for me personally at $2000 a non runner needs a lot of other stuff going for it.  You can become homeless chasing down every little piece retail.  At 3500 I get to at least hear it run.  4-4500 I get to yard drive it, minimum.  Not running I assume everything needs everything.  Total rebuilds front to back, and you're still risking a tired engine already 80 over, or cracked, or worse... trans or transfer cases worn out of spec, or worse.  Generator shot, starter bendix busted, flywheel missing teeth...  The list of unknowns cured by cash is endless, so a non running jeep salad at 4750 is a no go for me.  

It's an opinion.   ... and X2 on putting that 2500 into mechanicals

Thanks for the advice, guys

I have yet to find any source on replacement engine serial numbers.   If replacement engines followed the GPW serial number sequence, 105647 would fall in the 1943 GPW range of 90216 to 170336, but that number would fall in the 1941 Willys MB serial number range of 100001 to 108598 if it came from Willys which doesn’t make sense for a 1941 engine to be replacing a 1943 engine.    Could this replacement engine come from later CJ2a series?  That number would fall in the 1947 CJ2a serial number range of 83380 to 148458.

Anyone know of a source for replacement engine serial numbers VS year?

I have no idea if Willys kept track of the replacement engine serial numbers, I suspect not.

One thing to keep in mind is that after WWII there were a bunch of companies that bought up surplus equipment from Uncle Sugar, not Willys, & resold this equipment later. There was one fellow who bought up all the Radial aircraft engines he could find & then sold them as NOS engines to folks. He did this through the 1990s when he ran out of them.

Sears & Roebuck, Montgomery Wards, & J. C. Whitney all had "surplus" "Jeep" engines for sale through the 1970s or 80s. In 1978 I installed a GPW engine in a 1952 Willys pickup that came from J. C. Whitney. IIRC, The serial number did not reflect the GPW, it was a R4******* whatever. Most of the parts had a script F on them though. I do not know if this was a "rebuilt" or a "Replacement" engine or what. The Jeep's owner bought it as surplus NOS, but I had my doubts even then. In any case, he was happy & it ran great, so no worries.

If this engine was indeed surplus NOS, Willys would have no record of it or it's serial number. J. C. Whitney might, but I doubt that anyone kept these kind of records until now from 1978, say nothing of from 1941.

  

  There is no reason why Willys replacement engines would follow GPW numbering sequence. GPW’s were produced by Ford Motor Company and Ford also produced replacement engines during World War II. Ford did not produce any jeeps or any replacement parts after the war’s end. The 4LR engines with 641087 casting numbers were made after the introduction of the CJ2-A and into the early 1950’s. 

  A lot of things could have happened to result in that replacement engine being in that GPW. Here is just one possible scenario: The original engine in the GPW became worn or damaged and needed to be replaced, so the owner took the jeep to a Willys-Overland dealer and had them replace the engine. The 4LR engine was supplied by the dealership parts department and the service department installed it. Or the jeep’s owner went to the Willys-Overland dealer and bought the 4LR engine from the parts department and installed it himself. 

  As to the 4LR number being used as a serial number on the title, it was common in those days to use the engine number as a vehicle serial number. When the GPW engine was removed, the number was changed to match the number of the new engine. 

  Very, VERY few GPW’s retain their original engine. When I worked for Chevrolet, of course original “matching numbers” was very important to restorers. Chevrolet “service replacement” engines had a specific number prefix (I dont remember what it was) similar to Willys’ 4LR. Having a service replacement engine with that code was considered to be the next best thing to matching numbers. I would be happy to have a 4LR engine in any of my jeeps. 

BW