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Failed attempt at EFI on F-134 |
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boughtnobuilt 
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Joined: 19 Apr. 2020 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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 Topic: Failed attempt at EFI on F-134Posted: 15 May 2020 at 10:49pm |
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I wanted to record for posterity my failed attempt at fuel injection on my F-134. I bought a throttle body EFI from Affordable Fuel Injection because they have a good reputation the old LandCruiser world and they are cheap.
It showed up with everything and it looked like a lot of work, but doable. Until I tried to actually mount the throttle body to the intake manifold/head. They had supplied a large adapter place to the bottom of their throttle body that converts from their bolt pattern to the bolt pattern of the f-134. It's more than just an adapter because it also routes air into the IAC as well. Well, that large block of aluminum hit the valve cover. If I were to grind down the adapter plate enough, the fuel inlet would me smashed up against the valve cover. If I raised the entire thing up 2" so that it clears the valve cover, I have no idea what kind of air cleaner I'll get to fit on, as it's not the single barrel opening on top but a 4 1/4". So, I sent it all back. At the same time, I looked at the Sniper as alternative (since we just put on in on my sons Chevy) but although it's more of a single barrel setup, and I could sue the trans-dapt 2025 to mount it. Either side with the computer or the side with the fuel rail would hit the valve cover. So, back to carburetor.
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cpt logger
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Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
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Posted: 15 May 2020 at 11:34pm |
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I have no idea as to what is out there for Fuel Injection, (FI). If I wanted to convert to FI, I would look for a side draft unit. It would eliminate the air cleaner to hood fitment issue as well as the valve cover fitment issue. I would not shy away from mechanical FI. I have seen a side draft unit installed on other four cylinder engines. I do not recall what make it was, but it worked well. Heck, could any of the EFI units be used as a side draft unit? Would it matter which way was up to these units? In any case I would like to encourage you to keep looking for something that will work with your F-head. Good luck and let us know what you find, Cpt Logger. |
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boughtnobuilt
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Joined: 19 Apr. 2020 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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Posted: 16 May 2020 at 12:53am |
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Even if I could just move the throttle body 2 or 3" towards the passenger fender, it would work. and i considered fabricating something like the trans-dapt 2025 but with the tube at an angle so it's over to the side. But I have nightmares of it drafting wrong and never working right.
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otto
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Joined: 26 Feb. 2012 Location: Orygun Status: Offline Points: 2265 |
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Posted: 16 May 2020 at 1:05am |
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Have you looked into Hamilton Injection? Bill makes a kit for a L134, can’t be that much different from a F134. He also sells adapters separately.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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cpt logger
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Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
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Posted: 16 May 2020 at 2:46am |
You will never know until you try. Trying this kind of thing is at least half of the fun of modifying things. What do you have to lose? At worst the mixture would be so lean it would burn holes in the pistons. IMHO, This is extremely unlikely. Heck, it might just work out perfectly. Instead of living a nightmare you may end up living a dream!
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boughtnobuilt
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Joined: 19 Apr. 2020 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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Posted: 16 May 2020 at 3:57am |
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Contacted Hamilton. I'd been to that site before, but it's lack of specifics scared me off. But this time I sent him an email. It's similar to the Affordable system, a repurposed GM throttle body. Although Hamilton says he can do full spark control, so there must be some kind of crank sensor involved. I'm curious to see how that works. I'll see what they say.
At least I'm going to buy a trans-dapt 2025 or 2125 (I can't tell the difference) and modify it to get the EFI in the right place. We might go with Holley Sniper. The computer is built into the throttle body, there is software to edit the tune that I've used before, and it has a little screen that displays basic data and lets you do some set up and changes. Much more user friendly that the GM based systems.
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boughtnobuilt
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 1:16am |
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So, the EFI will need a coolant sensor - where is the suggested spot to install one? There's a valve in the head where the heater line returns.
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otto
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 2:08am |
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You’ll need to be reading the coolant temp as it’s leaving the engine, usually from the hottest point at the top/front of the head. If you’re reading heater return coolant it will be too cold.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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m38mike
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Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3798 |
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 2:37pm |
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boughnobuilt, I've got a Hamilton EFI in my M38. He'll ask you for your distributor as well as a gasket from your carb/intake. He'll rebuild the distributor to control the spark. He'll machine the injector adapter to mate with your intake. The adapter plate is usually about 1/2" thick. He's familiar with L and F heads so he can build your system so there will not be any interference with the valve cover. And he's very good with after-sales support. He's helped me a bunch with problems I had with leaks and faulty wiring of my own doing. I think you'll be very happy with his set up.
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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boughtnobuilt
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 3:59pm |
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Thanks M38mike. That's more than I got out of him via email.
How was the tune? Did you have him make adjustments? Are you able to look at the ECM at all? OBDii? It would be great if you could post a picture
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otto
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 5:03pm |
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Most of the information about the Hamilton system(and TBI in general) is over on the Binder Planet site, Bill’ Site is just a mechanism for him to sell his wares. The early TBI system is way before OBDll. He can provide an initial tune, and tailor it later depending on the data you provide him.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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otto
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 5:17pm |
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http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/ignition-systems-for-the-duraspark-conversion.48435/
Looks like I can actually post a link.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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boughtnobuilt
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 5:23pm |
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Thanks for that. I went over to Binder and signed up and cruised the injector section, but didn't find that.
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boughtnobuilt
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Posted: 17 May 2020 at 7:19pm |
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Thanks Otto for suggestion of putting the sensor up front, but where? On these rigs do people change the thermostat housing out for one with a fitting? T into the little hose running from head to water pump? I assume it's a bypass. Or is there a hole I can see in which I could put a sensor into the head???
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m38mike
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Posted: 18 May 2020 at 11:16am |
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In my Jeep I'm not using a heater so I used the heater hose inlet and outlet to create a "sensor channel" for my temp gauge sending unit and the EFI temp sending unit. Since it is a short run from the block, past the sensors, and back into the water pump, it seems to give me a good temperature reading on my gauge. I'm assuming the EFI sensor sees the same info. I think this works well because the water pump is always circulating the coolant thru this line. If you're running a heater then you may need to do something different. Maybe a T pipe where the thermostat usually goes. Then you could mount both the gauge thermostat and the EFI thermostat.
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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P-Mo
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Joined: 03 Sep. 2015 Location: Southwest CO Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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Posted: 20 May 2020 at 2:36am |
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Hi boughtnobuilt, I absolutely love my kit from Hamilton on my CJ2A. My jeep was actually the first one he built a kit for. After you get his kit installed, you just plug in the computer and log data and email him the data clip, then he burns a new chip and sends it to you to install until it runs perfectly. My temp sensor is in a plug on the back drivers side of the head. Good luck!
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P-Mo
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Posted: 20 May 2020 at 2:42am |
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Whoops, nevermind, I just realized we are talking about the F-134. I have an L. Sorry about that. Either way the TBI kit from Hamilton runs awesome!
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boughtnobuilt wrote: