steering box parts I.D |
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Jim H
Member Joined: 06 Jan. 2007 Location: st Louis Mo Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: 07 May 2009 at 10:25pm |
I am rebuilding CJ2A 54423 its gone pretty well up to this point on till now. a little back info, new tires, 4 matching oem rims sand blasted, welded on and painted, both axles gone though, to much to list, brakes all new or rebuild you all know that head ache. new front springs & steering components set up right. engine rebuilt, egge aluminum pistons made to order, had to save the original block upper bore pistons hard to find. harden seats and new valves, lightly ported & cleaned up, painted and ready to go in. tyranny & transfer case were good , new clutch components. there is a lot more there but i think this long winded enough. the reason why i am going though this is i wanted to say thank you to ever one on this site & the people who made it. 99% of what I was able to do to this jeep was from here. now to the point, while i have the motor out last thing was the steering box, 1/2 turn wheel slop. broke the box down it showed its where. i call a good parts store with my info, i had casting #on worm gear shaft & length, mine 40 15/16 when i look on line at parts they said 41 1/2 and 42 1/2 i notice the difference . i talked to the salesman he said it could one of two. note i told sales man of shaft length at this time. i ordered the shorter shaft thinking that bubba screwed the threads on the steering wheel pull and ground them off to get the nut back on. parts came there were wrong. worm gear, sector shaft, bushings.bearings & cups shim kit,upper bearing were good, note i am worried about worm gear & sector shaft matching my box . when i broke down box it had horn tube inside. the worm gear did not have brass pick up on worm gear shaft. .i call the guy back and tell him my problem and now he wants to hear about specs which i had in first place, threaded hole at bottom of worm gear shaft.i guess you know where this is going now. bubba strikes again. some one at some time did some swapping with a m-38 or m38a1 steering box . i made more calls to different shops to rebuild the box i have, the sector shaft i have is 15/16 miked out at .935 my jacket for the worm gear 331/2 long. i don't mind using the steering box that i have but one worm gear is available the other is not and the parts people i talk to will not tell me how to I.D the worm shaft i have they say its hit or miss i don't want to play the shipping game i am already there.my finial guesting is, can somebody tell me how to I.D the worm gear shaft i have and get the right worm gear & sector shaft and use my box & parts i have if it is available or use the total rebuild kit i have sitting on my bench & find another steering box to match my the parts sitting on my bench. if i go the second rout will i need to get another worm gear tube/ jacket mine is 33 1/2 the worm gear shaft i bought is 41 1/2. if any body has a steering box they want to get rid of that will work please let me know thanks Jim
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rocketeer
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 26 June 2008 Location: Lehighton, PA Status: Offline Points: 3473 |
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The early CJ2A's with the brush contact for the horn were 40.5" long. The later CJ2A's with the horn wire out the bottom were 41.5" and the CJ3A/M38's were 42.5". You could use the 41.5" shaft in your box, you would have to replace the outer column with the correct matching length. I assume you have double checked the length of that original shaft and it's not, maybe, 40.5"?
Larry |
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Jim H
Member Joined: 06 Jan. 2007 Location: st Louis Mo Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Larry thanks for the reply, the worm gear shaft i pulled from the box measured 40 15/16 you are not the first one to question this measurement. ever parts dealer i have talked to have said the same thing . i have worked as carpenter for over 20 years and been working military aircraft past 8 currently on the F-22 raptor air inlet, the only reason i say this is to reassure you on my measurement. thats why i gave the bubba theory on grinding down the worm gear shaft after the steering wheel pull, made it shorter to clean up the threads to get the steering wheel nut to go
back on, now i be wrong please help me here, i cant understand why the 41 1/2 would work in this box the difference being the 41 1/2 has a inside to inside bearing measurement on the worm gear shaft of 3 5/8 & on the sector shaft cam spacing outside to outside is 1 15/16 with a sector shaft DIA. of 7/8. now for what was in the jeep a worm gear shaft 40 15/16 long with the inside to inside bearing measurement of 4 15/16 with the sector shaft cam spacing outside to outside being 2 7/16 with the sector shaft DIA at 15/16. in short there is almost 3/4 " difference in inside to inside bearing measurement on the worm gear shaft it might make it hard to hold her 22 marbles. to tell the truth i don't know what i have in this old jeep as far as a steering box is concerned but i would like to find out.thanks again Larry for your input i hope i put some info out there that would make this clearer. as far as i know i have right now i have a fiat steering box the jeep. bad joke. not to happy with mopar restoring a 68 coronet r/t with the jeep
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rocketeer
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 26 June 2008 Location: Lehighton, PA Status: Offline Points: 3473 |
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I think maybe what we need here is the casting number off the steering box itself. If the size of the worm gear itself is different than the standard flat fender gear then we're just guessing at what you may or may not have. The possibilities are quit large. Could be anything from a Jeepster, to truck, to wagon, to CJ5(+) to who knows what. If it can be determined that the steering box is incorrect for a flat fender, irregardless of what it originally came out of, I think your best course of action is to replace the whole kit and kaboodle with a correct setup. I know Walck's, for instance, can sell you a correct used steering box complete with shaft and column.
Larry |
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Jim H
Member Joined: 06 Jan. 2007 Location: st Louis Mo Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Larry thanks again for the response, i agree with you 100 % the only reason i didn't post the casting # is because all of the parts people have talked to said they didn't matter i thought this strange but but went along with it and also heard willys wasn't to great with records. steering box Tl, steering box cover Tl12599p, worm gear shaft TL123001, sector shaft TL124993or8 on the last number. i cleaned the part numbers off with scotch bright but still a little hard to read.i will call whalks tomorrow and see what they have to say thanks Jim.
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rocketeer
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 26 June 2008 Location: Lehighton, PA Status: Offline Points: 3473 |
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The correct steering box, showing casting numbers, is here:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/ross-steering-box_topic3953.html Larry |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9611 |
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Kinda sounds like you may have an M38A1 box there, Jim, or one from a CJ5 with V-6. But then again, it could be from a Hudson, they used a Ross gear as well, and it was popular with Bubba. I have a M38A1 box as well as a V-6 box apart now, I can check the #'s and see if they match yours. The A1 & CJ5 V6 gears don't use the same worm shaft, so I'll measure that as well. Parts for the M38A1 gear are available from Kaiser-Willys IIRC, but cost a little more. BW
Edited by Bruce W - 11 May 2009 at 4:38am |
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Jim H
Member Joined: 06 Jan. 2007 Location: st Louis Mo Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Larry and Bruce thanks for your replies, larry those pics show a lot differences then the one i have, fill hole location to the upper of sector shaft, stamping in different places and my box, seems to be wider from top to bottom just from pics. the big difference, my worm gear shaft top cap has a seal on it, casting #t126995 i should have added that to my last post sorry. if this doesn't become a m38a1 thing thats the one i will go for. i do like the upper seal, it might help with water and i could use the few parts i have left . Bruce if you give me that info that would put me on the right path to complete my search. i did talk to kaiser-willys they said hit or miss on the m38, parts# didn't make a difference. thats one of the reasons why i am here please note i don't like to use names and i am not saying anything bad, i am just trying to find out what bubba did to this 60+ year old jeep i just thought parts # would mean more to the vender's. thanks again Jim
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rocketeer
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 26 June 2008 Location: Lehighton, PA Status: Offline Points: 3473 |
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Keep in mind, when going for parts, that an M38 (CJ3A) and an M38A1 (CJ5) are significantly different. Parts guys often confuse the two because of the common "M38" in their designations.
Larry |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9611 |
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Well, it appears as tho nothing matches, with a couple of possible exceptions. You might want to take a close look at those numbers, as they can be hard to read, especially, it seems, the last digit.
The m38A1 and CJ5V6 use the same cover, #TL125999
They also use the same sector, #TL:124999
They use the same worm, #123011 even tho the tube lengths are different. The number stamped on the worm must be for the worm itself, before it is welded to the tube.
The M38A1 tube&worm length is 42 5/16, the CJ5V6 is hard to tell, it's been altered.
The jacket length is 34 5/8 for the M38A1, and 34 for the CJ5V6
Both of these boxes have the number on the case stamped, not cast, and are mostly unreadable.
Both of these boxes are bigger in nearly every respect than all the Flat-fender boxes, and than the early 4-cylinder CJ5. I cant say for sure about the M38/CJ3A, but the M38A1 complete steering gear is not the same as the CJ5, 4-cylinder or V6.
So, there you have all the info I can give you, it appears as if we still have not identified what you have, except we're pretty sure that what you have is not original, or even correct for a CJ2A. Maybe your best bet would be to get a 2A box from someone here, and start over. Good Luck. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Jim H
Member Joined: 06 Jan. 2007 Location: st Louis Mo Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Larry & Bruce, thanks again for your response. Larry thanks for sticking with me on this you really got this ball rolling. I'm going to scrap what i have and start with a new approach,well most of it. Bruce you closed the deal with the info you provided. what you said about Hudson thing was scary, i meant to put that on my last but i was still half asleep. rush before work. but sounds like it might be right, know body seems to know i have,parts #s don't match,worm gear 3/4 longer for more turn radius, longer wheel base car, 15/16 sector shaft heavier car and so on, also jacket length. received a pm today on parts. I will follow though that tomorrow and let you know what happens, Jim
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