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Olaco fuel tank restoration

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randyscycle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyscycle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olaco fuel tank restoration
    Posted: 07 Mar. 2010 at 2:56pm
 I saw something similar many years ago, when  fellow tinned a real copper penny first, then soldered it over a small hole in a fuel tank to seal it.
It isn't leaking, it's just marking its territory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dennisanvil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2010 at 1:26am
I  work in a welding shop when i got out of the service in the 60,s, i seen a guy solder a tank full of gas. with a solder copper there isn`t any flame, so no bang.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyscycle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 10:54pm
 As both of those stories illustrate very clearly, a little common sense would have gone a long way to a safe ending.
It isn't leaking, it's just marking its territory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 10:48pm

Gasoline fumes start house fire

A woman who was washing items in her sink with gasoline received minor burns Saturday from a fire that damaged her mobile home in Northeast Lubbock.

Just after 5:45 p.m., firefighters were called to 4701 East Rice St. for a building fire. Flames were burning much of the mobile home's interior when crews arrived.

Within minutes the blaze was under control, but the unidentified woman received a superficial burn on her left arm. As fire spread through her home, she managed to escape with her purse.

An ambulance was called for the woman's injuries, but she wasn't taken to a hospital.

Vapors from the gasoline in the woman's sink got near the stove's pilot light, about 3 feet away, and the blaze sparked, fire department spokesman Mark Ethridge said. Much of the kitchen was burned, and smoke damaged other sections of the house.

Damage was estimated at $6,500, Ethridge said.

The American Red Cross came to provide assistance to the woman, whose home was uninsured.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyscycle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 10:45pm
 Keep in mind that most tanks I deal with are generally so rusty and old, they haven't had fuel in them in years and are generally not a threat. I say generally because they will sometimes surprise you.....
 
  My approach is usually to see what the interior looks like first and if there is anything that resembles liquid in there, get rid of that first. After that, I fill the tank with a really strong mixture of detergent like Tide or the like, and let that soak with hot water for a day or so. Keeping it hot helps with something like an aquarium heater or small immersion element. Once that's done, I dran and dry the interior with compressed air at a low pressure flowing into one inlet and out the sender or fuel valve hole. By then, there is not anything volatile left in there, or at least not enough to be a threat. As a precaution, and I know this sounds dangerous, but really isn't, I will take a hand-held propane torch and wave it by the opening of the tank. I've never had one flare, poof, or even give an indication of anything flammable after this procedure. Keep in mind however that this is mostly on small capacity tanks of 5 gallons or less. I have done a couple larger tanks, but I repeated the detergent soak several times just to be safe. Again, no problems to report. I still have my original eyebrows, and all 9 fingers.......Wink
 
  Then I do my cutting, welding, or repairs.
 
  For a tank that just needs a weld repair, like on a car or truck, I have used the exhaust method. It works well in the logic that without oxygen, a fire cannot burn. Just be sure you do this in a very well ventilated area outdoors preferably, and try to be quick about it. The tank will get pretty hot from the exhaust gas flowing into and through it.
It isn't leaking, it's just marking its territory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 10:41pm
True story:  A guy in Smithers WV decides to work on his gas tank while removed from the vehicle.  Being safety conscious he did not work on it in his garage, he took it down to the end of his concrete driveway.  Tank catches fire and Smithers VFD responds.  The firemen hit the tank with the high pressure hose sending the tank skidding up the concrete driveway into the garage and overturning the gas tank.  Garage catches fire.
Guy's home owners insurance company files claim with VFD insurance company.  My buddy was the Smithers Town Attorney at the time.

Moral of the story:  Sounds safe enough to me.  What could go wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 8:02pm
I used to hook up a hose from the exhaust of another vehicle and put that in the tank, it replaced the fumes with exhaust. Never had a explosion. (I've often wondered what would have happened if the carb was running rich though.LOL) Haven't used this method for many years though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 7:38pm
Though I've never done it, I've always heard introducing carbon monoxide into the tank is supposed to be a good method.....correct?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by rocnroll rocnroll wrote:

Originally posted by samcj2a samcj2a wrote:

 ....... although I think Randy's method of cutting tanks in half so they can be scrubbed completely and patched when they are open to the atmosphere would be fairly safe. 

 
As long as a careful procedure for cutting the tank apart is used.Embarrassed
 
 
 
  I'd laugh except that's a very good point.    Even a saw could create a spark, I suppose, but I'm guessing that's how he does it.  What is the technique, Randy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by samcj2a samcj2a wrote:

 ....... although I think Randy's method of cutting tanks in half so they can be scrubbed completely and patched when they are open to the atmosphere would be fairly safe. 

 
As long as a careful procedure for cutting the tank apart is used.Embarrassed
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by randyscycle randyscycle wrote:

  . . . .  Just be sure to be safe when welding that tank.
  I cannot agree more. 

For those who have heard this story before, I apologize.  Trying to fix a leaking 2A tank when I was a teenager, even though I rinsed the tank over and over and filled it with with water, I couldn't get the metal hot enough to braze with my oxy-acetylene torch because the water in the tank boiled and bubbled up onto the metal I was trying to braze.  After a few failed attempts, I lowered the water level in the tank and promptly blew up the tank.  Luckily, the weakened side that I was trying to repair was facing up and relieved all of the explosive force.  Lucky me that I was not injured or worse. Dead  After I stopped shaking and calmed down, I removed the entire side of the tank and brazed in a new piece of sheet metal in its place.  That went okay since the explosion purged all the remaining fumes from the tank.  

I will never try to weld a closed gas tank again, although I think Randy's method of cutting tanks in half so they can be scrubbed completely and patched when they are open to the atmosphere would be fairly safe. 



Edited by samcj2a - 06 Mar. 2010 at 7:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 1:51pm
I used the POR 15 product like Howard.  It did the trick for my Farmall Cub.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyscycle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 4:03am
 No problem, and I hope my ramblings prove helpful.....Tongue
 
 Just be sure to be safe when welding that tank.
It isn't leaking, it's just marking its territory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 3:32am
 Thanks Randy for all the good information.  I was wondering what to do with a my Willys truck tank that looks great except a couple of small holes in the bottom.  Looks like Castwell is the way to go after I do a little welding.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyscycle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2010 at 3:14am
 As with most sealers, yes the idea is to create a membrane inside the tank. If the air is cut off to any existing rust, in theory at least, the rust should stop. I've had varied results there in both tanks and with rust encapsulating paint like POR-15 though. I think that rust can trap some moisture and oxygen within it and its hard to ever remove completely. Add to that, that the inside of a fuel tank, particularly one that isn't kept entirely full all the time is a condensation magnet, and you have a difficult to remedy situation.  
 
  Caswell will seal holes well. Tape over it and let it "pool" in that area and it does a decent job. We do weld any tanks first though, so as not to rely on the epoxy alone to do the job.
 
  Mixed properly at around 65-70 F, the Caswells is thicker than the POR, but not by much. It flows pretty easy and has a fair amount of working time. I generally find I have about 30-40 minutes to move the tank around and coat the entire inside without any issue of hardening beyond workability. I'd say heavy cream at worst. They do not recommend heating the epoxy, but I find that if I keep it near the woodstove for a bit before mixing it, it does flow better, and it doesn't seem to alter the cure time at all.
 
  I agree with the poor quality replacement tanks. In my world, we many times don't have a choice of a replacement at all. Try to find a Benelli Cobra Scrambler tank just laying around! Repair is the only option. But with time and patience, you can get excellent results and a very usable finished product.


Edited by randyscycle - 06 Mar. 2010 at 3:16am
It isn't leaking, it's just marking its territory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2010 at 9:08pm
Randy, I like the idea of the epoxy actually creating another tank inside the existing, Isn't that essentially what Caswell's product does? If it keeps air out of the 'loop', between the tank and the sealant, then it cannot rust. How is for sealing holes in a rusted tank? Can you just tape off a rusted spot as they suggest?
I think the mixing process has some draw back for epoxy.  What is the consistency of the sealer when it is mixed at the optimum temperature? Like heavy cream....syrup....milk...water?   The clear finish is cool. I found that you had to be attentive to keeping the tank moving around to get the best, more even coating inside.
Pick good weather and have plenty of time to do it right. Is this the same for Caswells product?
Sure would like to hear about some other brands on this subject from other users.
I might suggest that the condition of the tank may suggest the best way to seal it and maybe help dictate the best technique or product to consider using. Simplicity and skill levels are also factors. 
This is an important subject...repairing fuel tanks....the repro tanks are generally poor...big surprise...keeping an original tank is valueable and rewarding to finish with a great sense of dependability and safety. Safety should be a paramount concern as we sit right on top of the tank while driving!
Good Afternoon. 


Edited by Howard - 05 Mar. 2010 at 9:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyscycle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2010 at 7:58pm
 Howard, in the restoration business (motorcycles) we see a lot of bad tanks on an almost monthly basis, and I have tried about every product and every method for cleaning over the years as they have come onto the market. I don't doubt your experience, but this is just what I've experienced personally. I don't mind a good discussion on the subject. That is how we all learn.   
 
  I did use POR15's US Standard tank sealer for a number of years with good results on metal tanks. In many cases, we would physically cut open the tanks on some machines, media blast the inside to perfectly clean metal, then re-weld them, and seal them afterward. Again, this worked for a long time, until the 10% ethanol came along. At almost the exact time this happened, we had two tanks come back with the insides looking like curtains where the sealer was separating from the interior. I've since seen a number of them that were done by others as well, although I can't vouch for their pre-sealing prep work, so that could be a variable. Getting the tanks both clean and dry is the cause of many sealer failures to be sure.
 
  Kreem, which was another product of the time, also suffered the same fate, only worse, because it wasn't the best product in my opinion, to start with. It was very finicky about the surface texture of the interior of the tank. That, and they still sell it today, with the claim that it is ethanol safe. I can say that is very untrue, as I right at this moment have a Yamaha RD tank that is having the interior stripped of flaking, bubbled Kreem which was applied not more than two months ago by another shop. The surface of the tank, again looked clean in spots whereit has come off, but it appears something actually attacked the Kreem sealer like a solvent.
 
  Elizabeth Radiator in New Jersey also has a system that actually installs a liner into a fuel tank too. I've not used it personally, but have heard of some issues where they tank still continued to rust from the inside between the liner and the tank surface afterward. Again, this I haven't personally seen or verified, so its strictly hearsay.
 
  That all said, I started using Caswells Epoxy sealer about two years ago when it first came to market, and have not had one tank return for a sealer failure. I like it because it actually does stand up to ethanol, and also to two-stroke gas/oil mix as well. It will also work on fiberglass tanks too. Its clear, so after cleaning the inside of the tank and sealing it, it doesn't look sealed. Not so much of an issue with a vehicle where you cannot see the inside of the tank, but somewhat important on a bike.  I'm not a salesperson for them, mind you, but they do have a product I have had excellent results with.
 
 


Edited by randyscycle - 05 Mar. 2010 at 7:59pm
It isn't leaking, it's just marking its territory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2010 at 5:37pm

You make some great points Howard about the procedure and about how the tank MUST be dry before application. It definitely sounds like there might be room for error if you are not carefull.

Good post!
 
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