Correct Transmission Fluid? |
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Biggie
Member Joined: 29 July 2006 Location: Winona, MN Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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This is one of the best threads ever! I've been using Mobil One 75w-90 synthetic gear oil for diffs, gear drive t-cases and manual trannys thinking I was getting premium oil for these apps. After checking the specs on the oil I found it is GL5/MT1 which means, of course it is a hypoid gear oil with EP additives for the reasons previously stated but the MT1 designation means "not for syncromesh transmissions". I changed the AX15 in my Wrangler to it about a year ago and filled the T18, which I just rebuilt, in my J-truck with it. I intended to use it in the T90/D18 but I am definately going to make the appropriate adjustments.
As a side bar, the information and threads that appear here are great and the willingness to share info among forum members without projecting an attitude, (unlike some other forums), is super!
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'79 J20
'77 J20 '69 J3000 '68 J3000 DRW '70 Renegade 1 '74 304 Renegade '05 Sahara/Rubicon LJ '46 CJ2A '14 Cherokee Trailhawk |
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samcj2a
Member Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 21 Oct. 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Status: Offline Points: 8549 |
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Fred,
I have a similar manual, but it could be a year earlier. It is titled a Service Manual and covers the years 1945-1964. As Carl has mentioned, above, each lubricant has potentially different properties. I, too, have seen GL-4/5 lubricants that say they are safe for yellow metals, and I have seen others that do not say peep about their ability to protect yellow metals. I'm pretty sure your mileage will vary, and my object is not to prolong the discussion. I do have one amusing anecdote that I will relate, below. FWIW, my Jeep Service Manual that I referenced above, that I imagine is similar, though not identical to yours, specifies GL-4 lubricant for the CJ-2A transmission. It also has one other amusing statement. On the first page of the first section, General, it lists the Jeep vehicles covered in the manual. It correctly describes the CJ-2A as having an L-head engine and the CJ-3B as having an F-head engine. However, this official Jeep publication also describes the CJ-3A has having an F-head engine! "CJ-3A -- This is a 4-wheel-drive 'Jeep' Universal. It has a four-cylinder, F-head engine. This model is no longer in current production." So, I'm not so confident that every statement in every official Jeep publication has been well vetted. I wonder if your manual has been corrected in that respect or if the error persisted. Mine appears on the first page of Section A, numbered page 3 in my case. Edited by samcj2a - 26 Apr. 2012 at 4:35pm |
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Fred Ashbrook
Member Joined: 25 Apr. 2009 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 238 |
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Sam, my manual is copyright 1965, Kaiser Jeep, & covers CJ-2A thru CJ-6A. I'm thinking since it is basically an official service manual that it would have been updated according to the latest information/developments, especially in the lubricants area. This discussion is very much the same as we have had for years about fluids for Model A's - don't think that has ever been resolved, either...
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Fred A
48 Lefty Virginia 48 Lefty |
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Carlsjeep
Member Joined: 15 Jan. 2011 Location: Taylorsville Ky Status: Offline Points: 2642 |
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Many of the gear oils are now compatible to brass. I have checked some of them and it seems to be a hit or miss and you have to do some research for the brand you find or are using.
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Life is only as good as you make it.
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dutch525
Member Joined: 07 Sep. 2010 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Napa sells a GL 1 gear oil.
I have a couple gallons on the shelf at home and can put the napa number up if needed.
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Dutch
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WeeWilly
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3422 |
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Could the oil companies be changing their ingredients in the gear lubes? After reading all these replies I checked what I put in mine and it is G5 and it says on the label that it prevents corrosion of brass and bronze. I believe I got it at Autozone.
JIM |
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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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captnjody
Member Joined: 15 Feb. 2011 Location: Hurley, MS Status: Offline Points: 134 |
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Guys,
Fwiw, after all the discussion, I talked to a friend this afternoon that has about 1500 miles on a tranny rebuild in a 2a. He had never heard of running straight mineral oil, and had filled his with chevron GL-5 80/90 from the get go. I talked him into letting me drain it and strain it through a paint strainer. He almost fainted..the strainer looked like we had been panning for gold. His tranny had been operating flawlessly, so imagine his and my surprise at the degrading of the metal. Now I'm no oil expert, nor a metalurgist, but it is what it is. Cant help but think with the heat of operation, and the GL-5 additives, he was unknowingly destroying his tranny. But that's just my opinion..you make your own. |
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1951 CJ-3A "Johnny Reb"
1948 BTC-3 1946 CJ-2A; 16004; column shift 1970 Deuce "Jacks Revenge" |
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Daniel_Buck
Member Joined: 01 Apr. 2012 Location: Gilroy Status: Offline Points: 1200 |
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Wow, i just picked up some Valvoline 80w-90 for my transmission/transfer case not thinking anything about the metals in there. It's not the GL1 varient, I'm glad I didn't get around to filling them up yet! haha I think I'll hold out for one of those GL1 oils if I can find one.
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samcj2a
Member Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 21 Oct. 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Status: Offline Points: 8549 |
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Fred,
That must be a later manual as opposed to a vintage manual Which one is it? |
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Fred Ashbrook
Member Joined: 25 Apr. 2009 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 238 |
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My Jeep Service Manual specifies GL-4 SAE 90/80 (summer/winter) for CJ2-A. Label states non-corrosive to non-ferrous metals - got it at NAPA.
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Fred A
48 Lefty Virginia 48 Lefty |
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captnjody
Member Joined: 15 Feb. 2011 Location: Hurley, MS Status: Offline Points: 134 |
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I just picked up 5 gals. of GL-1 90w from my local NAPA, and when i checked online, all three NAPA stores local to me carried it. I got the Super S brand, and they carried one other. straight mineral oil.
I use it in my trans/transfer case. Be safe, safe yourself some trouble, use whats recommended unless you know without a doubt something else will work. just my 2 cents. :) |
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1951 CJ-3A "Johnny Reb"
1948 BTC-3 1946 CJ-2A; 16004; column shift 1970 Deuce "Jacks Revenge" |
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samcj2a
Member Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 21 Oct. 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Status: Offline Points: 8549 |
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FWIW, I just ordered 2 gallons of the NAPA 65-201 GL-1 80w90 Gear Oil from a local NAPA store that will order it from the DC warehouse and have for me to tomorrow, so the GL-1 is available, but not likely to be stocked in too many stores, given the application.
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SYLVANWILLYS
Member Joined: 27 May 2011 Location: Ewing, NJ Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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Just wanted to share the latest from Valvoline and Napa:
-----VALVOLINE: can see one of my previous posts up above and what they had told me. Funny what happens when you call the same number at the same company and ask the same questions, but speak to a different technician! After sharing what Willy's calls for in the transmission and transfer case he said the best Valvoline product for this application is their: GL-1 MINERAL GEAR OIL and is a straight 90wt and they only sell it in 5 gallon pails and the part number is 70044 (I think it also is called Valvoline TRA Gear Lubricanta, 5 Gal, 90 and is that same Valvoline part number) and can get it at NAPA (which I verified by call NAPA). I asked the Valvoline tech if regular gear oils would harm the transmission and transfer case and he brought up how they have Sulphur and it hurts yellow metals. I also found it on Grainger's site and it may be less expensive. There seems to be no info on Valvoline's website and I called them back and they emailed a very brief one page product info sheet. If anyone wants to see it and if there is a way to post it on our website here then let me know. -----NAPA: When I called to verify they could get the Valvoline product the guy said that NAPA also carries a GL-1 gear oil and that is it made at the same factory as the Valvoline product and it is the exact same oil. I compared their product literature (including MSDS sheet) to Valvoline's and it seems that they are definitely not the same oil. The part number is NHF 65201 and it says that it is also a GL-1 90WT gear oil. -----LUCAS: You can see my prior info on what they had told me. As with Valvoline I called back and the rep I got this time of course recommended something completely different than what the first Lucas tech told me. I shared with him what the first rep said and he went back and talked to that rep and to a Lucas chemist and called me back and said the chemis suggests what the first rep said, use the Synthetic 50 wt Trans Lube product BOTTOM BOTTOM LINE: Read and review everything and make your own conclusions. For my part I think as a best guess hunch at this point I think that I will go with the Valvoline GL-1 gear oil and will buy the 5 gallon pail, which is more than I need. If anyone in the CENTRAL NJ AREA (Princeton/Trenton area) wants any, then just let me know and I can split proportionally as you need. Thanks again for everyone's help and if anyone learns anything more, please add on here. I'll never believe again that there is something called a "simple question"!! Best, Greg |
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Tom in RI
Member Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: RI Status: Offline Points: 1125 |
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NAPA still sells 90W GL-4 and I have been using it in my jeep.
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samcj2a
Member Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 21 Oct. 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Status: Offline Points: 8549 |
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Well, thanks to Greg for asking the question and Sean for posting the essential caution, and then Greg for pursuing more specifics from the suppliers, this has become a good education. Thanks to all.
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SYLVANWILLYS
Member Joined: 27 May 2011 Location: Ewing, NJ Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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HI, Just updating. Below is what both Pennzoil and Red Line Oil had to say on this topic. I will add more from other companies as obtained.
------------PENNZOIL: ----I Asked: Hi, I have a 1946 Willy's Jeep CJ2A. The original Willy's documents say to use a "MINERAL GEAR OIL" in my transmission and transfer case (for the Differentials they say to use a Hypoid gear oil). Can you tell me what Pennzoil product is safe and best to use in my Transmission and Transfer Case? ---- Pennzoil responded: Thank you for your inquiry. For your differential, you can use Pennzoil or any 80W-90 GL5 gear oil. However, for the Transmission and Transfer case, you will need an 80W90 GL1 or GL3 gear oil. That is difficult to find. You may be able to find it at your local Jeep or Mitsubishi dealer. ----I Askedl: Thanks for your quick response and I will call the Jeep dealer and ask if they have it. Can you let me know why the GL-5 gear oil is no good and also if Pennzoil Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid(I think that is the name) is good and safe to use in my Transmission and Transfer Case? ----Pennzoil responded: The GL5 has more of the EP additive then GL4, GL3, GL2 or GL1. The EP additive will destroy the Yellow metals of the Transmission or Transfer case. As for the Synchromesh it is a much lighter viscosity than the Gear Lubes listed below. Should you desire to speak with a technical representative to discuss this issue in more detail please call Pennzoil-Quaker State Technical Information at 1-800-237-8645. Sincerely Product Technical Service -------RED LINE OIL: ---I Asked: WHAT IS THE CORRECT FLUID FOR THE TRANSMISSION AND TRANSFER CASE. ORIGINAL WILLY'S DOCUMENTS SAY TO USE 80 OR 90 weight "MINERAL GEAR OIL". Thanks, Greg ---Red Line Responded: Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your Jeep’s transmission and transfer case the MT-90 would be recommended a good choice for both. Regards, Red Line Oil The "MT-90 link in Red Line's response does not seem to work here but it takes you to this web address: http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=46&pcid=7 ,, and the information on that product page includes:
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bkreutz
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 17 Oct. 2006 Location: Fruitland Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7037 |
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This article explains it pretty good.
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2007/article_gearoilbasics.aspx I'm not an Amsoil advocate (neither here nor there IMO) but the article appears in their site but they didn't write it. |
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rigidsteel
Member Joined: 21 May 2011 Location: york PA Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Just use regular gear oil 80-90w it'll be just fine.
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DR Phelps
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