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Change date for accent paint on "Willys" ? |
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Holy Toledo 
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Joined: 07 June 2009 Location: Traverse City, MI 49684 Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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 Topic: Change date for accent paint on "Willys" ?Posted: 17 Aug. 2011 at 1:11am |
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Earlier, while researching the part color for a PTO plate cover today,
I came across this statement in the Parts Paint Color List; Would someone point me in the correct direction or link me to the threads? Currently, I think this change occurred earlier than June,
1947 so I am looking for some evidence to support this date. Thanks,
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Joel
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bkreutz
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Posted: 17 Aug. 2011 at 1:16am |
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I know that when I was painting mine I determined that I was just inside the date for the highlight, mine is about Aug 47, so that summer 47 date sounds about right. There is a service bulletin somewhere that gives the specific date.
Edit: I think if one dug around in the "service bulletins "section in the research and history forum it could probably be found. Edited by bkreutz - 17 Aug. 2011 at 1:18am |
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bgirmus
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Posted: 17 Aug. 2011 at 1:26am |
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This might help:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/observations-parts-colors_topic2695_post18890.html#18890 Brandon |
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1946 CJ2A 46191
1943 MB 265211 |
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Bill Norris
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Posted: 17 Aug. 2011 at 6:04pm |
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The change occured about the third week of June 1947. I'll have to dig through old e-mails and see if I can find it. Todd Paisley has the engineering notes for the change with the exact date. He sent it to me a bout 10 years ago. I'll see if I can find it, but it was June of '47 for sure that much I remember.
Bill
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sean
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Posted: 17 Aug. 2011 at 6:10pm |
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Bill:
Brandons link goes direct to your earlier posting of the info, no need to go "find" it all over again.
 Edited by sean - 17 Aug. 2011 at 6:11pm |
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Bill Norris
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Posted: 17 Aug. 2011 at 6:17pm |
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Sean,
Thanks for saving me the trouble! I didn't even see that. Must be my ADD acting up again. Hey look a squirrel!
Bill
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F Bill
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Posted: 17 Aug. 2011 at 8:07pm |
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I like Cheese.
Hey look, another Squirrell!!
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If you haven't checked out the tech FAQ section, go to:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tech-faq_forum57.html for a lot of great stuff you need to know!! |
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Holy Toledo
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2011 at 6:05pm |
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 Okay, so here is my dilemma regarding the change date to
accent paint on the " WILLYS" hood stampings. I now think the change date was earlier than what
has come to be accepted as the Forum's norm; June, 1947. Above and below are two Life
magazine's photographs that recently appeared on this Forum. The photos struck my
interest because of its unique opportunities for dating changes to a CJ-2a
model. Why is this photo a good case study? Foremost, I first believed that the photos give great photographic clarity to the June, 1947 change date for accent paint
on the hood logo. Now, I believe the
second reason is much more important. It
portrays an early 1947 production model of a brand new, dealer demonstrator in
use. Couple this set of circumstances with an annual college event that had
been held since 1940. Conclusion, I think what the photographs portray is what was actually available new for sale by W-O to the general public at a known time! The photos are not W-O marketing department advertisements. The 2a
has 1947 Ohio dealer license plates on it. I think these pictures were taken earlier than June of
1947. I would guess April or May, 1947
at the latest. Here are my reasons why.
1. The foliage on the trees and bushes is much
too sparse for any late spring day in June on the Cayahoga River. I draw upon my years of picking mushrooms
and maple sugaring to make this call.
2. Other than the
sorority judges in their white sailor dresses, every older adult and young
child are dressed for the weather. No
bugs and cooler temperatures. Kent,
Ohio's long term average high and low temperatures for the months of April,
May, and June are: 60/40, 72/51, and 80/60 respectively. April in Kent, Ohio has a lot of climatic
energy for growth packed into it. I
checked the historical weather archives for Kent, Ohio. They did not have an
unusually cold spring in 1947. 3. Would the
University's fraternities and sororities plan a campus activity of this
magnitude during the month of June? Colleges
are normally winding down, while some are not even in session. From mid-May on, the activities would have been
final tests, papers, graduation, and packing up to go home. I would think that mid-April through mid-May
would be the more suitable time for the Row Boat Regatta. 4. I have a healthy skepticism of W-O organizational/manufacturing
practices to rely on them only. The plow mount on the front of the 2a raises questions with me. Did the factory install these as an option or did the dealers install plow mounts once the vehicle arrives at their lots? Does anyone have knowledge of W-O approved plow options? Is the shown plow mount a part of a W-O plow option(s)? Have it guys, lets hear what you think about my conjectures on dating these photographs and a June,1947 date for accent paint. 
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Joel
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samcj2a
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2011 at 7:11pm |
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There are definitely highlights on the raised Willys letters on the hood. There are some non-factory things on that Jeep so the highlights could have been added too. Willys obviously got the idea to highlight the letters from somewhere, possibly from things that owners and dealers did in the aftermarket.
Given the marker lights, that 2A was built no later than mid March 1947, I'd say.
I think your dating of the photo is reasonable. Who knows about the accented letters, though - factory or dealer, take your pcik.
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kilroy
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2011 at 8:22pm |
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WOW!
Very "Holmes-esque"!   I especially liked the part about checking "historical weather records"! This reads like a detective novel! Thanks, Joel. Good post! This is fun as pickin' apart a "For Sale" Jeep picture!  Edited by kilroy - 19 Aug. 2011 at 8:47pm |
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"You know, I'm too old a bunny to get very excited about all this."
General H.E. von Salmuth Commander German Fourth Army France: 5 June 1944 1947 Willys CJ2A 1947 Bantam T3-C Trailer |
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sean
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Posted: 19 Aug. 2011 at 10:02pm |
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I seem to recall from the earlier discussions that someone had strong evidence to suggest that certain dealers were doing this before Willys. Otherwise, it would have had to occur before mid-'46  still, anything is possible. Sean
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bgirmus
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Posted: 20 Aug. 2011 at 12:18am |
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Interesting. I don't ever remember seeing a reason given for not highlighting windshield lettering. I assume that the highlighting was applied after the Jeep was fully assembled, rendering it somewhat difficult to highlight the windshield lettering. So, in the interest of saving time in the production process, the highlighting was not applied on the windshield. However, if the highlighting was applied at a dealer, I would think that the dealer would go ahead and highlight the windshield lettering in addition to the tailgate and hood lettering. After all, the dealer wasn't producing the Jeeps and a few more minutes of highlighting wouldn't have been a big deal. Thoughts?
Brandon |
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1946 CJ2A 46191
1943 MB 265211 |
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Holy Toledo
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Posted: 21 Aug. 2011 at 7:09pm |
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Sam, what do you see, other than the plow mounts
that is non-factory? I've looked at this
photo too long and cannot see the forest from the trees now.
I seem to
recall from the earlier discussions that someone had strong evidence to suggest
that certain dealers were doing this before Willys. Sean, The creative spirit of individuals and dealers
to personalize their vehicles has always been a possibility with me. I have the same inclinations that Brandon
does. Why stop at just painting the
hood accents as Brandon writed? Pin striping
and Fire Jeeps comes to my mind. Can you
point me in the direction of this other documentation that discusses the
starting of logo accent painting by dealers?
My curiosity is up. Thanks for including a good Life
photo. I had forgotten about its details,
especially the column-shift, hood accents, and the round W/S review mirror. This photo always struck me as odd, almost a
black and white info-commercial on behalf of the Willy's export market in South
Africa? It is a well staged photograph. Like the product placement of jeep and logo. The juxtapositions of the subjects, like the camel
and machine, the old and new, the colonialism and tribal government, and then the
white and black race issues to boot. Sometimes,
while looking at this photo, I think I am looking at a product from a photo
studio shoot of two soldiers in a jeep, placed in front a backdrop picturing
two soldiers on camels? I think the fore
ground lighting adds to this effect but it is also perfect in clarity for the details
you want to export. This is why I like
the realities of the Life Row Boat Regatta photo. It only looks to be a light-hearted piece of
photo-journalism about an actual event.
I could only find a vague published story on race relations in South Africa
in a December, 1946 magazine. Any other
ideas as to why the Jeep/camel photo was taken?
Interesting. I don't ever remember seeing a reason given for
not highlighting windshield lettering. I assume that the highlighting was
applied after the Jeep was fully assembled, rendering it somewhat difficult to
highlight the windshield lettering. So, in the interest of saving time in
the production process, the highlighting was not applied on the
windshield. However, if the highlighting was applied at a dealer, I would
think that the dealer would go ahead and highlight the windshield lettering in
addition to the tailgate and hood lettering. After all, the dealer wasn't
producing the Jeeps and a few more minutes of highlighting wouldn't have been a
big deal. Thoughts? I could
not agree with you more Brandon. I have just never see any period photographs of this happening. I would think the tailgate would be pin
stripped as well. |
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Joel
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samcj2a
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Posted: 21 Aug. 2011 at 10:28pm |
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Well, in addition to the plow mount, there is that nicely hand lettered sign indicating that someone skilled at painting had their paint brush out!
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sean
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Posted: 22 Aug. 2011 at 3:15pm |
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Joel:
Who knows? There's just no accounting for "Willys think".  The majority of photographic evidence says it is the case. But without documentary evidence explaining when/why/how, we'll never know for sure.
Nope, sorry. "Search" is thoroughly dysfunctional right now, so I can't find anything. Just a 3 or 4 year old "recollection" (which may be bad). My point is, the presence or absence of hilighting, by itself, isn't conclusive. Our only documentary evidence is the snippet posted by Bill. Until & unless more & better evidence shows up, all we can do is conjecture. Having said that, I'm personally convinced that factory hilighting occured at about the same time as "standard" side-steps, which occured about that same June '47 time frame (s/n 129806). In all the period photos we've found, the vast majority of vehicles w/side steps also have hood hilighting, the vast majority of vehicles w/out side steps don't have hilighting. But that's still not 100%, since "standard" side steps are easy enough to remove after purchase, and "optonal" side steps could always be added to earlier vehicles.
That's just the outside mirror relocated. A common "mod". Sean
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Holy Toledo
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Posted: 23 Aug. 2011 at 3:00am |
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Sean,
Keep chumming the waters with small bits of information.....I'll bite every time. I just had to check all my reference photos for accents paint and side-steps. The closest I could come to June,1947 was a photo taken in 1948. I'll keep that bit of reference in the back of my mind. Bill Norris mentioned "engineering notes" with regards to accent paint. What and where are these "engineering notes?"
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Joel
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Bill Norris
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Posted: 24 Aug. 2011 at 4:24pm |
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Joel,
It is my understanding that engineering notes are actual internal factory documents as to when changes were to be put into production assembly lines.
Bill
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shakyshot
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Posted: 24 Aug. 2011 at 5:04pm |
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This is a picture of my grandfather's 47 showing the highlights and a serial number of 103586. I know this number falls somewhere shy of the middle of the numbers for 47. Don't know if this information is at all useful.
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1947 CJ-2A #103586 "Les"
1947 Bantam T3C Hiawatha "Moore" Hayes Family CJ-2A Montana Rocky Mt. Flat Fender Club |
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Bill Norris wrote: