Building a Universal Modified |
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Pope891
Member Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Barry- I would be very interested in those ubolt skid plates.
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Barry S
Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2020 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 661 |
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Hi Jeff, thanks for sharing the starch results. Very interesting! Back to a past subject - My brother Ron works at a steel fabricating shop. We are going to make 4 compete sets of Ubolt skid plates like you made for Stan. He is going to make drawings with solid works that we can share with others on the page. I wondered if you had aleady done that - didn't find anything with a search.
-Barry
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1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729 194? CJ2A 04893/194304 1946 CJ2A 46745 1946 CJ2A 36723 1945 MB 413665 1971 CJ5 8305017 375392 Drive train parts donor Bantam Trailer T3-C 25487 |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Starch in the tires report:
A recap, I put liquid starch in my tires to see if it would help them hold air. Here is the back story: Building a Universal Modified (Page 93) I think I have run with the starch long enough to post this observation. My tires mostly leak around the beads but to show you how this stuff works, here are some pictures: ... you can see the starch where it oozed out of the beads ... ... you can also see where it has come out of the tears and slices in the sidewalls. ... anywho, Before adding the starch, my tires would loose 5 lbs or more overnight. During my trip to Colorado, I aired down to 8 psi and basically drove on 8 psi for two weeks both on and off-road. I aired up once to drive 30 miles on the hi-way from Crested Butte to Taylor Park. All four tires held air without failure until the last two days of the trip. The last two mornings of the trip, one of the tires was leaking about 3 psi overnight. When I got home, I broke the outer bead, cleaned it, poured 12 oz of starch in the tire, and aired it up. It started holding air again.... That being said, ... If you look at my pics, you can see that the starch gets hard when exposed to air. It seems like when you first put the starch in, it seals the leaks very well for a while but after time, the tires start leaking again. Never as bad as before the starch but still... I notice it particularly if the vehicle sits in the garage for a while without being driven. I also have noticed that if you just pour the starch in and not drive the vehicle, it does not seal as good. I wonder if the starch is working until it solidifies and then when you air down, it might not be able to hold due to flexing. I'm still observing. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Hi Frogkid,
Thanks for the feedback, even with the sway bar, I am significantly more flexible than the other leaf springs flattys I am wheeling with and I have more body roll. That’s what I am seeing and that’s what people who ride with me tell me. An example would be in an off camber ditch, if I follow the same line as others, they make it through but I end up rubbing my cage. I have learned to solve most of this with driving technique but it is still obvious that I have more roll than stock. Truthfully, I am very happy with the dynamics of the Jeep now and I really don’t notice any situation where it’s obvious that my suspension is a problem. I don’t know if it could be better because I don’t have another similar example to go by but my fun meter is on 11 so I think I’m doing good. Shocks: I think the bilsteins are pretty good but maybe could be better. Idk. I’m not up in shock science too much. These are valves 255/75. I think. The only thing I notice is when I am climbing a bumpy ledge sometimes I get a little bouncy compared to others. It can be a bit of an uncontrolled feeling that I’m not sure how I feel about but then again sometimes this action will actually pitch me over the hump so I just stay with it. A sway bar can’t help with that since it’s not side to side. ... in fact, I will probably stick with what I have suspension wise till I see another 82” wheelbase vehicle go somewhere that I can’t. For now, I feel like I’m dialed in. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Frogkid
Member Joined: 04 May 2020 Location: New england Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Just read through your whole thread the other day at work, great build and I'll be using a lot of it as inspiration, your build goals were what I had in my head when I got mine stock looking but capable, learned a lot of leaf tech especially. I knew I'd be extending my shock towers, I like how you did your rears, it's nice you don't have to french the frame on these. Have you considered a custom tuned shock like a fox/king smoothie? Or are you happy with the bilsteins? I remember reading many pages back you had been suggested to use a stiffer shock to tune out some body roll, if you go that route you end up with a much less compliant ride, body roll should be tuned out with swaybars. I'm not sure how it is with leafs but on coils the rule generally is once the coil unseats you're past "usable flex" meaning like you said, the wheel is unweighted and has very minimal traction anyways.
If the antirock is limiting flex it might be too stiff a rate for the lightweight mb, it shouldn't limit articulation even with a 12" shock. Sway bar(s) are certainly the way to go though. Edited by Frogkid - 04 July 2020 at 1:52am |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Hi Bill,
My build thread is a “no flame” zone. In fact, if you have read it you can see that it is a diary of how I went from not knowing anything to learning through experience what a lot of these guys already knew Yes, putting some sort of bump stop would stop the shackles from inverting but I do not want to limit my travel on side to side flex: There are lots of pics on page 73 but here is an example: notice the left shackle is close to inversion while the right shackle is fully stuffed the opposite way. The left shackle will not invert on compression because the right spring and shackle are forcing the axle to go backwards, not forwards. I have learned that the shackle inversion problem only occurs when both sides are allowed to droop. I have also learned that full droop does. not help me offroad. The only time both wheels are able to droop is when there is no weight over the axle and in that case you have no traction anyway so that flexibility is useless. This would be if you are jumping out of a ditch with the front wheels off the ground or your belly is hung up on a rock. ... a natural instinct would be to limit the shackle travel but that would also affect your side to side articulation. This is why I use a single limit strap on the hogs head. This allows me full articulation left to right but keeps both side from drooping which helps me get over things easier because the weight of the axle can pull the Jeep over stuff. .... In this build thread, you see tons of information on spring geometry. I do not claim expertise. I am a hands on student who wants to learn by doing and not reading. I also like to post my results so that people can see what I’ve done and where I’ve been and hopefully save some time and money. For some, it confirms what they already knew and they can say “I told you so” . I don’t give too much advise. I like to demonstrate what I have been through with photos and videos and let you decide for yourself. Some will disagree, but I said all that to say this ..... If you follow my examples you will get very good articulation from leaf springs but in my humble experience, I have learned that it is not what I want. Over 4 or 5 years, I have been shortening my springs, adding a sway bar, e.t.c. And BAM BAM is more capable than ever. I really love my dynamics now. Yes, I am picking tires a lot more now but it’s better to have weight on 3 tires with one in the air than it is to have 4 touching with no weight on them and your body unloaded. That’s my experience anyway. Thanks for reading. Edited by jpet - 26 June 2020 at 8:42pm |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Long_Range
Member Joined: 23 Nov. 2016 Location: Northern CO Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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New guy here. Just finished reading this great story. Thanks for sharing. I read more than once you mentioning inverted shackles, once going to longer shackles to help stop it (and hogs head limiting straps). Would welded on shackle travel limiters work for this issue. I envision welded on tabs on the frame shackle mounts that would just keep the shackles from going over center and inverting when the spring is unloaded (or when ramming an embankment trying to pop up and over which was my experience). Just thinking out loud. Please go gently on me if this is not the brightest pondering or was hashed out long ago somewhere. Bill |
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Barry S
Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2020 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 661 |
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I would call that home remedy a success! Thanks for your research and sharing. Glad you got out to wheel some more. I'm still planning for mods from lessons learned at Southington.
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1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729 194? CJ2A 04893/194304 1946 CJ2A 46745 1946 CJ2A 36723 1945 MB 413665 1971 CJ5 8305017 375392 Drive train parts donor Bantam Trailer T3-C 25487 |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Update:
I wheeled this weekend. Friday afternoon, I aired down to 8 psi and then wheeled till dark. Next morning, the tires still had 8 psi. Then I wheeled all day Saturday on 8 psi. I was in mud, sand, sticks and water all day. I didn’t check them when I finished but there was no noticeable air loss. After bringing the Jeep home, I aired all 4 tires up to 20 psi. After a couple hours, all but one tire still had 20 psi. After a close inspection I saw that there were sticks and rocks jammed In the bead so I let the air out of the tire, cleaned the debris out between the tire and the wheel flange with a screw driver, aired the tire back up, and went to bed. Next morning, all 4 tires had 20 psi and they have not lost any air all day today. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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duffer
Member Joined: 02 Feb. 2012 Location: Bozeman, MT Status: Offline Points: 1086 |
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It will be interesting to see what sort of "staying" power the starch has. Starch obviously can change form based on temperature. It is for certain way more cost effective than any of the "sealants".
That said, I've had great success with Gempler's Ultra Seal. It has sealed several 1/2" cuts in everything from Bobcat tires to truck tires. Permanently.
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1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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Gaffer
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2015 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 174 |
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Love the price. Great idea. I've used a little slime. The way I see it is ~24 dollars for 64 oz of slime and 3 dollars for the starch. 21 dollars for gas and another wheeling trip on the same tires.
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-Gaffer
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rocnroll
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Tuscumbia, AL Status: Offline Points: 13584 |
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Yes, of course......I was just commenting on the amount. There seemed to be a balance concern question. I was just addressing the comparison amounts of your mix vs Slime. I've always used Slime in lawn mower tires with good results. The cleanup I don't know other than excess on the OUTSIDE of the tire cleans up with a water rinse.....now that inflated/flat fix in a can is a different animal. If you want a sticky mess there's what you need. Glad the starch worked for you, always good to hear home remedies. |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Isn’t cost reason enough?
I’ve never used slime but I’ve heard that it is messy and hard to clean up. I’m not claiming that it’s better. Mainly, I was just curious to see if it would work. Just experimenting. Edit: I’m not recommending anything. This is what I did, and this has been the result so far. Edited by jpet - 17 June 2020 at 11:07am |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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rocnroll
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Tuscumbia, AL Status: Offline Points: 13584 |
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Unless I missed something you added about 16oz which is what would be recommended if you were using 'Slime'......I see no difference other than cost.
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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Anvil
Member Joined: 07 June 2017 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 326 |
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Converting tubed rims and tires to tubeless used to be a big thing in the MTB world. Google "ghetto tubeless." I used to use a mixture of latex mold builder (liquid), Windex, propylene glycol, and glitter. Like bass boat glitter. Mix it all up. Can't remember the ratios but mostly latex mold builder. Google will sort you out. The glitter helps fill punctures. You can make a big batch for a few bucks. Works amazingly well and vastly more cost effective than Stan's or Slime and such.
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Nothing Special
Member Joined: 02 Feb. 2018 Location: Roseville, MN Status: Offline Points: 843 |
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People add "balance beads" to balance tires. I'd think that any liquid would distribute itself much like loose beads would, so as long as it doesn't freeze into a big lump it ought to help balance.
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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I’m not sure how I would remove any fluid. I drove it to work and back today. No noticeable imbalance and no air loss today. As long as it doesn’t harm anything, I think I’ll just leave it in there. I’m more concerned about off-road than on-road. This weekend, I plan to air down and wheel. I’m curious to see what happens when I air back up.
I just started searching around on the internet machine and came across this idea. It’s mostly a farmers trick. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Gaffer
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2015 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 174 |
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Is there a noticable fluid mass inside the tire? This is interesting stuff. Would you attempt to remove the remaining fluid or add more like ballast weight to the front end? Just a few thoughts that come to mind. Where did you come up with this idea?
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-Gaffer
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