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Building a Universal Modified

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jpet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2020 at 7:42pm
It’s all good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2020 at 12:11am

Jpet, as usual on your thread you went above and beyond!  Thank you for sharing.

I agree that even “Dream” jeeps are always a work in progress – Is there such a thing as a Jeep that is “Done”??  As far as Super Stock – I’m only building this one for me.

I knew you had a good reason to make those changes in Oct. 2018 just couldn’t figure out what they were.  Whatever the magic combination is, you made Rocker Knocker look easy – nice job!

Thanks for all the tech info on the TC and rear end.  That really helps cement my ideas for a build.

Keep up the great work – Really looking forward to meeting you and everyone in May!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2020 at 12:58am
Normally, this time of year, I am in the middle of a major design change on BAM BAM but I haven't really changed anything all winter. Maybe that means I am getting dialed in?

Look forward to meeting you in May. Since you are from North East Ohio, I wonder if you have any connections with Southington Off-road Park in Garrettsville? We would like to wheel there May 21st. That is the Thursday before the reunion. Do you know any of the administrators?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2020 at 1:48am
PM sent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2020 at 11:48am
Thx. PM answered.

They are open this weekend if anyone following this thread wants to check it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2020 at 2:09pm
Tire report:

Hi all,

I thought I would report on the success and failures I have had with my home made 6" wide Kelsey Hayes wheels and tubeless tires with tapelocks. Warning, this is long and possibly boring.

First, the tapelocks. You may recall that I used two wraps of gorilla tape on the safety humps to keep the beads secure to the wheel:

Page 92

... anywho, since then, I have wheeled in Kansas twice, Indiana, Moab for 10 days, and several times in Missouri. No more than 9psi and even as low as 5 psi. I can honestly say that these work:



Alan, can testify that I have folded these tires all the way over and the bead wont come off. Only once in this time did I pop one off and that was a very hard hit sideways that resulted in a flop:



... even then, after getting back on the tires, i was able to back down the hill with the outer bead off and the inner bead held till I got to the bottom to fix it.

To be fair, I have never tried these wheels without the gorilla tape so now I am running two wheels without tape to see if the tires stay on.

One problem I have had is that when running low tire pressure, debris can get between the wheel flange and the tire bead which causes them to bleed off. They are slow bleeds and I've never had a flat on the trail, but the next morning I may have a flat tire. I just let the air out of the tire, use a screwdriver, to remove the debris, and air back up. No big deal for me really.

The second problem I have had is that the beads bleed a little bit even if there is no debris in them. The more I dent these wheels up, the worse it gets but even when new, they did bleed off around the beads slightly. I think it may be more to do with these particular wheel shells than anything because I have mounted these tires tubeless on 5" KH wheels before without any problems. Anywho, these wheels are beat up enough now that the problem is very annoying. My tires will leak anywhere from 5 - 10 psi overnight and while others were airing down before the trail, I was airing up....

Has anyone ever heard about putting liquid starch in a tire to seal leaks? ... I read about it, got curious and decided to try it:



This 64 oz bottle is $2.97 at Walmart. I've never used slime or anything like that in a tire. I decided to go with the starch just because I thought I might learn something and it is not messy, plus I'ts cheap.

These tires don't only leak at the beads. They also have sidewall cuts:







.... now for the disclaimer: I am not suggesting that you drive on tires with damaged sidewalls, or use starch to fix them. I'm just telling you what I did and what the results were. Everytime, I wheel in south central Missouri, I get damage to my tire sidewalls. The rocks there are sharp as razors. If I pitch my tires every time I cut a sidewall, I would have to buy a set every time I go to Missouri. My plan is to have a set of old cut up tires for Missouri and get a new set of tires and wheels for areas where the rocks have softer edges....

.... anywho, I started with about 8 oz in each tire. I just put a piece of hose over the valve stem and poured it in, and then aired the tire up:



In the pics, you can see the starch oozing out the bead where the leaks are.



Right off the bat, the starch helped slow the leaks. I'd say about 5 psi over 24 hours. This is better, but not acceptable to me, so I added another 8 oz per tire, i.e. 16 oz per tire which is the whole bottle, I aired the tires up to 35 psi, hoping that it would force the starch into the leaks, and drove the jeep around that day, probably 50 miles or so. Then I aired back down to 20 which is what I usually run them at on the road. It seemed like they were leaking less and less but still leaking about 2 psi overnight. Sunday noonish, I aired them all back up to 20 psi. The next morning, I checked them and they had not lost any air. Went to work. After work, checked them again. Still at 20 psi. Tuesday morning, got up. Checked them again. 20 psi!

The jury is still out but this is encouraging. I'm not sure what will happen next time I air down but I'll find out this weekend. Again, I'm not suggesting you do this, I'm just reporting on what I did. This technique might be good for a lawn mower or other off-road tire. I have ordered 4 new wheel shells and plan on getting another set of tires for general purpose. Thanks for reading.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2020 at 10:12pm
Is there a noticable fluid mass inside the tire?  This is interesting stuff.  Would you attempt to remove the remaining fluid or add more like ballast weight to the front end?  Just a few thoughts that come to mind.  Where did you come up with this idea?
-Gaffer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2020 at 10:43pm
I’m not sure how I would remove any fluid. I drove it to work and back today. No noticeable imbalance and no air loss today. As long as it doesn’t harm anything, I think I’ll just leave it in there. I’m more concerned about off-road than on-road. This weekend, I plan to air down and wheel. I’m curious to see what happens when I air back up.

I just started searching around on the internet machine and came across this idea. It’s mostly a farmers trick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2020 at 12:02am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

.... No noticeable imbalance ....

People add "balance beads" to balance tires.  I'd think that any liquid would distribute itself much like loose beads would, so as long as it doesn't freeze into a big lump it ought to help balance.  
Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anvil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2020 at 1:43am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

I’m not sure how I would remove any fluid. I drove it to work and back today. No noticeable imbalance and no air loss today. As long as it doesn’t harm anything, I think I’ll just leave it in there. I’m more concerned about off-road than on-road. This weekend, I plan to air down and wheel. I’m curious to see what happens when I air back up.

I just started searching around on the internet machine and came across this idea. It’s mostly a farmers trick.
Converting tubed rims and tires to tubeless used to be a big thing in the MTB world.  Google "ghetto tubeless."  I used to use a mixture of latex mold builder (liquid), Windex, propylene glycol, and glitter.  Like bass boat glitter.  Mix it all up.  Can't remember the ratios but mostly latex mold builder.  Google will sort you out.  The glitter helps fill punctures.  You can make a big batch for a few bucks.  Works amazingly well and vastly more cost effective than Stan's or Slime and such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2020 at 3:36am
Unless I missed something you added about 16oz which is what would be recommended if you were using 'Slime'......I see no difference other than cost.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2020 at 11:01am
Isn’t cost reason enough?

I’ve never used slime but I’ve heard that it is messy and hard to clean up.

I’m not claiming that it’s better. Mainly, I was just curious to see if it would work. Just experimenting.

Edit: I’m not recommending anything. This is what I did, and this has been the result so far.

Edited by jpet - 17 June 2020 at 11:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2020 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Isn’t cost reason enough?



Yes, of course......I was just commenting on the amount. There seemed to be a balance concern question. I was just addressing the comparison amounts of your mix vs Slime.

I've always used Slime in lawn mower tires with good results. The cleanup I don't know other than excess on the OUTSIDE of the tire cleans up with a water rinse.....now that inflated/flat fix in a can is a different animal. If you want a sticky mess there's what you need.

Glad the starch worked for you, always good to hear home remedies.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2020 at 4:25pm
Love the price.  Great idea.  I've used a little slime.  The way I see it is ~24 dollars for 64 oz of slime and 3 dollars for the starch.  21 dollars for gas and another wheeling trip on the same tires.Smile
-Gaffer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2020 at 10:15pm
It will be interesting to see what sort of "staying" power the starch has.  Starch obviously can change form based on temperature.  It is for certain way more cost effective than any of the "sealants". 

That said, I've had great success with Gempler's Ultra Seal.  It has sealed several 1/2" cuts in everything from Bobcat tires to truck tires.  Permanently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 1:23am
Update:

I wheeled this weekend. Friday afternoon, I aired down to 8 psi and then wheeled till dark. Next morning, the tires still had 8 psi. Then I wheeled all day Saturday on 8 psi. I was in mud, sand, sticks and water all day. I didn’t check them when I finished but there was no noticeable air loss. After bringing the Jeep home, I aired all 4 tires up to 20 psi. After a couple hours, all but one tire still had 20 psi. After a close inspection I saw that there were sticks and rocks jammed In the bead so I let the air out of the tire, cleaned the debris out between the tire and the wheel flange with a screw driver, aired the tire back up, and went to bed. Next morning, all 4 tires had 20 psi and they have not lost any air all day today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2020 at 12:30pm
I would call that home remedy a success!  Thanks for your research and sharing.  Glad you got out to wheel some more.  I'm still planning for mods from lessons learned at Southington.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long_Range Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2020 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Originally posted by chasendeer chasendeer wrote:

how did Bam Bam work with all the mods last week?


(Edited)

The first day, caused me to make some changes to my suspension geometry. My front was unloading too much and even inverting the shackles so I had to tie my winch to the front axle to limit the droop as seen in this pic by Brian Gabriel:

New guy here. Just finished reading this great story. Thanks for sharing. Clap
I read more than once you mentioning inverted shackles, once going to longer shackles to help stop it (and hogs head limiting straps).
Would welded on shackle travel limiters work for this issue. I envision welded on tabs on the frame shackle mounts that would just keep the shackles from going over center and inverting when the spring is unloaded (or when ramming an embankment trying to pop up and over which was my experience). 
Just thinking out loud. Please go gently on me if this is not the brightest pondering or was hashed out long ago somewhere.

Bill

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