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Building a Universal Modified

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jpet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2020 at 8:40pm
Hi Bill,

My build thread is a “no flame” zone. In fact, if you have read it you can see that it is a diary of how I went from not knowing anything to learning through experience what a lot of these guys already knew

Yes, putting some sort of bump stop would stop the shackles from inverting but I do not want to limit my travel on side to side flex:



There are lots of pics on page 73 but here is an example: notice the left shackle is close to inversion while the right shackle is fully stuffed the opposite way. The left shackle will not invert on compression because the right spring and shackle are forcing the axle to go backwards, not forwards. I have learned that the shackle inversion problem only occurs when both sides are allowed to droop. I have also learned that full droop does. not help me offroad. The only time both wheels are able to droop is when there is no weight over the axle and in that case you have no traction anyway so that flexibility is useless. This would be if you are jumping out of a ditch with the front wheels off the ground or your belly is hung up on a rock.



... a natural instinct would be to limit the shackle travel but that would also affect your side to side articulation. This is why I use a single limit strap on the hogs head. This allows me full articulation left to right but keeps both side from drooping which helps me get over things easier because the weight of the axle can pull the Jeep over stuff. ....

In this build thread, you see tons of information on spring geometry. I do not claim expertise. I am a hands on student who wants to learn by doing and not reading. I also like to post my results so that people can see what I’ve done and where I’ve been and hopefully save some time and money. For some, it confirms what they already knew and they can say “I told you so” . I don’t give too much advise. I like to demonstrate what I have been through with photos and videos and let you decide for yourself. Some will disagree, but I said all that to say this .....

If you follow my examples you will get very good articulation from leaf springs but in my humble experience, I have learned that it is not what I want. Over 4 or 5 years, I have been shortening my springs, adding a sway bar, e.t.c. And BAM BAM is more capable than ever. I really love my dynamics now. Yes, I am picking tires a lot more now but it’s better to have weight on 3 tires with one in the air than it is to have 4 touching with no weight on them and your body unloaded. That’s my experience anyway.   Thanks for reading.

Edited by jpet - 26 June 2020 at 8:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frogkid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 July 2020 at 1:42am
Just read through your whole thread the other day at work, great build and I'll be using a lot of it as inspiration, your build goals were what I had in my head when I got mine stock looking but capable, learned a lot of leaf tech especially. I knew I'd be extending my shock towers, I like how you did your rears, it's nice you don't have to french the frame on these. 

Have you considered a custom tuned shock like a fox/king smoothie? Or are you happy with the bilsteins? 

I remember reading many pages back you had been suggested to use a stiffer shock to tune out some body roll, if you go that route you end up with a much less compliant ride, body roll should be tuned out with swaybars. 
  
I'm not sure how it is with leafs but on coils the rule generally is once the coil unseats you're past "usable flex" meaning like you said, the wheel is unweighted and has very minimal traction anyways. 

If the antirock is limiting flex it might be too stiff a rate for the lightweight mb, it shouldn't limit articulation even with a 12" shock. Sway bar(s) are certainly the way to go though. 


Edited by Frogkid - 04 July 2020 at 1:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2020 at 4:29pm
Hi Frogkid,

Thanks for the feedback, even with the sway bar, I am significantly more flexible than the other leaf springs flattys I am wheeling with and I have more body roll. That’s what I am seeing and that’s what people who ride with me tell me. An example would be in an off camber ditch, if I follow the same line as others, they make it through but I end up rubbing my cage. I have learned to solve most of this with driving technique but it is still obvious that I have more roll than stock.

Truthfully, I am very happy with the dynamics of the Jeep now and I really don’t notice any situation where it’s obvious that my suspension is a problem. I don’t know if it could be better because I don’t have another similar example to go by but my fun meter is on 11 so I think I’m doing good.

Shocks: I think the bilsteins are pretty good but maybe could be better. Idk. I’m not up in shock science too much. These are valves 255/75. I think. The only thing I notice is when I am climbing a bumpy ledge sometimes I get a little bouncy compared to others. It can be a bit of an uncontrolled feeling that I’m not sure how I feel about but then again sometimes this action will actually pitch me over the hump so I just stay with it.   A sway bar can’t help with that since it’s not side to side.

... in fact, I will probably stick with what I have suspension wise till I see another 82” wheelbase vehicle go somewhere that I can’t. For now, I feel like I’m dialed in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep. 2020 at 6:20pm
Starch in the tires report:

A recap, I put liquid starch in my tires to see if it would help them hold air. Here is the back story:

Building a Universal Modified (Page 93)

I think I have run with the starch long enough to post this observation.

My tires mostly leak around the beads but to show you how this stuff works, here are some pictures:



... you can see the starch where it oozed out of the beads ...



... you can also see where it has come out of the tears and slices in the sidewalls.





... anywho, Before adding the starch, my tires would loose 5 lbs or more overnight. During my trip to Colorado, I aired down to 8 psi and basically drove on 8 psi for two weeks both on and off-road. I aired up once to drive 30 miles on the hi-way from Crested Butte to Taylor Park. All four tires held air without failure until the last two days of the trip. The last two mornings of the trip, one of the tires was leaking about 3 psi overnight. When I got home, I broke the outer bead, cleaned it, poured 12 oz of starch in the tire, and aired it up. It started holding air again.... That being said, ...

If you look at my pics, you can see that the starch gets hard when exposed to air. It seems like when you first put the starch in, it seals the leaks very well for a while but after time, the tires start leaking again. Never as bad as before the starch but still... I notice it particularly if the vehicle sits in the garage for a while without being driven. I also have noticed that if you just pour the starch in and not drive the vehicle, it does not seal as good. I wonder if the starch is working until it solidifies and then when you air down, it might not be able to hold due to flexing. I'm still observing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep. 2020 at 1:56pm
Hi Jeff,  thanks for sharing the starch results. Very interesting!  Back to a past subject - My brother Ron works at a steel fabricating shop.  We are going to make 4 compete sets of Ubolt skid plates like you made for Stan.  He is going to make drawings with solid works that we can share with others on the page.  I wondered if you had aleady done that - didn't find anything with a search.

-Barry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep. 2020 at 2:53pm
Barry- I would be very interested in those ubolt skid plates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov. 2020 at 7:42pm
More changes:

First, I put in my new transfer case which gives me ratios of 153:1, 84:1, 40:1, 30:1, 23:1, 16:1, 8:1, 4.56:1

Since I don’t need to be geared that low, I’m going to be doing some re-gearing in other areas. Not exactly sure what I want to do yet but I do want to play around with that 40:1 ratio and see how I like it. One thing I’ve complained about with my current setup is my 58:1 ratio. I’ve always felt it was too slow in some situations.

Second, I got tired of having to repair my fenders every time I go out in the woods so I made some tube fenders.







These fenders are welded to the frame using 1/4”x 1-1/2”x 2” angle. These fenders can’t be removed without a grinder, so I decided to make a bolt on access panel on the drivers side since my steering and clutch components are on that side. I also added some louvers like the originals:







I also made them an inch narrower:



All I had was Walmart camo paint so I may dust them off again with some g503 paint. I think they pass the 20’ test but if they don’t, too bad. Fixing my fenders was getting old. Thanks to Bridog for supplying we with the pre-bent tubing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov. 2020 at 8:05pm
Nice solid fenders and still retaining the standard appearance !
And love the look of your latest sipe job on those NDT’s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov. 2020 at 11:05pm
Very nice Sir! 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 7:18am
Your headlight is crooked😳  
Either that or your frame, axles, and body are off about 27 deg.   lol


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 2:56pm
Nice job on the fenders!  I'm impressed with how smooth you got the transition from the flat sheet metal to the round tube.  Glad you got through the "Rona" OK.  It's thick around here. I am really hoping it doesn't mess up Spring Reunion again.  Guess we shall see.

-Barry
1947 CJ2A 93664 "Grasshopper"
1947 CJ2A 90729
194? CJ2A 04893/194304
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1946 CJ2A 36723
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 3:56pm
What are the snaps for on the front section?

These look great. Stock fenders bend way too easy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 4:25pm
Nice fenders Jeff!  I'm thinking of doing something similar to those in aluminum with a nice flat web welded to the bottom of the tube so I can just bolt a piece of rubber belting on there that won't care if it is in the trees or rocks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LuzonRed47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 5:04pm
Ultra-trick, ultra-stealth Bam Bam gets even more...ultra-trick and stealth! Great work, Jeff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

What are the snaps for on the front section? ...
snaps?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73 cj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Originally posted by Nick_ Nick_ wrote:

What are the snaps for on the front section? ...
snaps?
I think he's talking about the nubs on the angle iron. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 7:44pm
Those are cap screws to hold on the access panel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2020 at 11:15pm
Another great idea to help prevent a shortage of flatty fenders!! You need some spray on mud patina on that new fender but they look great!Clap Nice shot of your front spring setup too!

Belleview ol skool winch soon.
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