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Low speed engine lock up on L134

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Texwing View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 May 2013 at 3:53am
I cant figure this one out, my 1946 CJ2a, which i have driven just briefly after buying, smoked like crazy, but ran well and had good  oil pressure.  Fresh oil. I recently drove it just a bit  and in first gear, going slowly, the engine just  stopped and is now just locked up tight, starter will not budge it.  Rocking the jeep in gear will get no engine movement.  Any thought on what might have caused such a low speed lock up, and what i might do? thanks in advance.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Schimms15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 4:40am
wow, was it not getting any oil, were you that low on oil? pull the stater it could be jammed in the fly wheel, then try to turn the engine by either the nut or the fly wheel ( put her in neutral)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 4:48am
My guess.....oil pump failure.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote autolite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 5:00am
I'm with rocnrol on this one.Oil pump lock up.Had that happen to me and it broke a tooth on the cam shaft gear that drives the oil pump.Thank good all I had to do was replace the cam shaft and oil pump.No additional damage done to the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Texwing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 1:10pm
No,it was running on plenty of fresh oil, and last time i looked it had good oil pressure, but that could have dropped off and i might not have noticed.  I suppose i will pull the starter and look, its just strange, since the engine was under very little load and going slowly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 1:52pm

Did you hear a strange noise just prior to the seize?  If so, you may have broken internals...rod, wrist pin, crank.

If no strange noise, I'm inclined to agree with the others...oil starvation or broken oil pump.
 
I'm sorry to hear about this.
 
Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Texwing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 3:03pm
No, so strange noises, and I have thrown rods and such on cars in my dumber faster days so have an appreciation for deep knocking and suck. Of some interest,  the electric fuel pump had gone out, and I was running it on a gasoline IV which is gravity fed, but that always works ok. It was however, running poorly and was not its normal self, so I do fear something coming apart like a oil ring, but not sure that would seize it up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 3:43pm
Re-read autolite's answer....it makes alot of sense whether you had "plenty of fresh oil and good oil pressure" or not. If a tooth was already cracked/broken it doesn't matter how much fresh oil you dump on it.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 3:50pm
Oh, wow, I'm sorry to hear that. You could start by pulling the spark plugs and looking to see if any of them are beat up, and shine a light / look inside thru the plug holes for damage or anything where it doesn't belong. You can drain the oil and look for filings/shavings/pieces in the oil. Then, you may have an idea whether to pull the head or the pan. You could also pull the oil pump and inspect the gear on it and the camshaft. A broken oil pump gear and even a broken gear on the cam might actually be a "good" thing, since if the pump stops so does the distributor and the engine stops, possibly avoiding more serious damage. I don't think that in itself would lock up the motor, though. Good Luck.   BW

Edited by Bruce W - 10 May 2013 at 3:52pm
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3ferris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 4:23pm
Smoked like Crazy!!!  There is your sign.  Pull it  rebuild it.  If no noise it may be as stated before  a broken ring scored the walls and locked the piston in place.  Second worse case senerio.  Worse case is a locked  rod bearing.  Pull it rebuild it  as you said  Smoked like crazy.
Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Texwing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 4:42pm
All true, all possible, I will pull the starter just in case its the culprit, but I doubt it. What I failed to mention is that I was getting in shape to sell it since 3 cj2a's are a bit much these days. Hate to try to sell with a locked engine as selling it "running but needs rebuilding" usually a lot better- We shall see. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Texwing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2013 at 7:01pm
I pulled the starter for the first time.  Starter was fine, then the engine was fine! not locked, but i did observe that the flywheel was messy, likely a result of a bad ignition switch that would keep the starter engaged. I put it back together and all is like it was.  I can only guess that somehow the starter drive wedged the wrong way between flywheel and housing and locked the whole thing up, but it came out easy. Dont know thanks for the help. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote autolite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 3:50am
Glad it was not the oil pump and that your engine is good to go.Had that same starter issue on my 45 GPW and changed out the starter bendix drive and have not had a problem since.If the starter is staying engaged with the flywheel after start up,you should be hearing one hell of a winding noise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Texwing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 12:17pm
Yes, me to even the old fuel pump came back to life after disassembly so it was overall a good day for the silver jeep, and I am finally done with the solex carb/electric fuel pump/pressure regulator fiasco.  On the starter, the bendix was nice and greasy and looked like PO had the same problem and had already been in there.  The flywheel teeth are pretty rough, I  am not sure the cause,but the ignition switch spring loading does not kick out the starter like it should and needs to be replaced.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 2:29pm
Before you color this problem solved, count the teeth on both your flywheel ring gear and your starter drive gear.  The stock configuration is a 97 tooth ring gear and a 10 tooth starter.  Later model ring gears had both 124 teeth and 129 teeth.  These won't work well with a 10 tooth starter.  The 124 tooth ring gear is supposed to have a 9 tooth starter gear.  I don't recall what the 129 tooth ring gear requires, but, again, the 97 tooth ring gear needs a 10 tooth starter.   Several members have had this problem of mismatched gears before because they usually work for a little while but then bind up.
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TERRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 3:12pm
I don't think the Bendix is supposed to be "greased".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmcjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by TERRY TERRY wrote:

I don't think the Bendix is supposed to be "greased".
 
 
 
He's right, grease on a starter bendix causes far more trouble than it will ever solve. Glad to hear it was a easy fix.  Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Schimms15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2013 at 8:22pm
sam for all of our benefit what is the way to figure your flywheel teeth without actually counting each one? isnt it like measure an inch, count how many teeth are in that inch, then multiply it by the circumference of the circle? 
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